Thread: Getting a harsh edge from Suehiro 20k

Originally Posted by Steve56

I'm not sure I buy the "I need tape to avoid honewear" argument. Ideally, the spine and edge should wear together to maintain bevel geometry, on typical razors that don't need the goldwash or damascus pattern on the spine preserved, or whose makers set the bevel angle with tape.

I understand the microbevel thing, and that's fine, but just to use tape at 1k to "prevent hone wear" is probably questionable. If you put tape on the spine at 1k then hone back to the apex on 3k, there's absolutely no difference than if you didn't use tape at all. Think about it.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by dcaven

I hope I can figure out the Suehiro. I bought it because I wanted to get a little bit more out of my edges. As far as hone wear, what Steve 56 makes sense in theory. I have, however, ruined a Filly on a 1k. For some reason the 3k doesn't cause the damage to the spine the 1k does. Perhaps you are right and I am not really evening out the bevel with the 3k. Perhaps I should tape the whole way through. I will think about it and will do some tests with a sharpie. With the Filly, the 1k just ate up the spine. I sold the razor for a fraction of what I paid for it. I recognize the need for the 1k but don't trust it at all.

I used to hold to the idea that the spine and bevel needed to wear together. I honed with tape for a year, then without it for about a year. I finally came to the conclusion that tape is a better choice ....... for me ...... YMMV.



What ever anomaly there is in the spine will show in the bevel if the spine is taped. IOW, it will work out in the bevel, but it won't create a problem in terms of achieving a shave ready edge. Below see two Robert Williams SRP limited editions. The prototype, in the foreground, was honed with no tape, and the other with tape. Both are great shavers.

That may be true but, first of all, I don't want the spine work or original spine damaged if possible. Second, I just don't like tape. I don't want to tape each razor every time I want to do a quick touch up. A quick touch up soon becomes more than that with me spending time taping, untaping and applying some sort of solvent to get rid of the glue the tape has left behind. The only reason I use the 1k and 3k at all is they save a tremendous amount of time setting the bevel versus setting the bevel on a coticule. I want to use the 1k to set the bevel and the 3k without tape to correct the geometry. The best idea I have heard so far is to use a Sharpie on the bevel before honing on the 3k.

I would say if you start with tape, finish with tape. I don't know what tape you are using, but it takes me all of 5 seconds to apply and remove tape. Also, I've never had any tape residue left on my blades, especially anything that needed solvents to remove. I have the gokumyo 20k, and it's great and easy to use. I've been using it less recently because of some jnats, but I still like to use it for touchups. I have several razors I'm restoring that have horrible geometry issues caused from excessive honing and bad technique. Not all razors are equal, so you need to establish a solid starting point. I always start by assessing the hone wear and inspecting the way the blade rests on the hone. This tells me if I need to use a rolling x stroke or not. Then I inspect the hone wear. Then it's just a matter of making sure the bevel meets along the entire length of the edge. Try to look past the tape/no tape nonsense and I'm sure the edge will come together. The 20k is a fantastic finisher, I don't believe the issue is in the stone. Good luck!

Originally Posted by dcaven

I need the tape on the 1k to prevent hone wear. I do not want to have to tape them every time I refresh them so I transition from a taped razor to an untapped razor at 3k. Also, some of my razors were honed not using tape by vendors and it would be impossible to know which ones to tape and which ones not to tape, therefore I lose the tape. I was instructed to do this by someone who puts excellent edges on razors.

For me I use tape on every razor to prevent hone wear and scratches. And when I use tape to start with I keep it all through the honing process to keep the same bevel. When you start with tape thickness of 7 to 8.5 thousandth then when you remove it the bevel changes. Anyway that's my way of thinking.

Hint;

Stop thinking and speculating and go try it

1 Layer of Electrical tape at the 1k level to set the hard bevel then dropping the tape at the 3-4-5 k level takes mere seconds to even out the bevels less then 20 laps
It eliminates the deeper 1k scratches that you would leave on the spine..


I have a Vid of exactly how little one layer of tape changes, things but honestly just go try it yourself the AHT and dulling the edge is a good way of testing it...
Set the bevel at 1k with 1 layer of tape so that it passes your AHT, then lightly kill the edge so that it doesn't pass, then remove tape and re-set the bevel using your 3-4-5 k hone and see just how little it takes...

(Does not apply to using multiple layers for geometry issues and Torque while honing plays a large effect on spine wear in general)

Probably just me but your touch up progression sounds kind of funny.....as in any one of the three would do the job for you but you believe all three in progression will give you the magic edge....many experienced members have weighed in on this.....so I don't need to add any solutions just that I have never heard of the 3 hone progression you mention before this post for touching up a blade. Let us know if all or any of this stuff works.