Thread: Getting a harsh edge from Suehiro 20k

The problem is taking off the tape and never reaching the very edge. Try using the sharpie at the 3k and see if I'm not right :<0)

Your setting the bevel at 1 angle and then lowering it off the edge through the progression. If you spend enough time at the 3k your alright but here comes that hone wear your trying to avoid.

I'm not sure I buy the "I need tape to avoid honewear" argument. Ideally, the spine and edge should wear together to maintain bevel geometry, on typical razors that don't need the goldwash or damascus pattern on the spine preserved, or whose makers set the bevel angle with tape.

I understand the microbevel thing, and that's fine, but just to use tape at 1k to "prevent hone wear" is probably questionable. If you put tape on the spine at 1k then hone back to the apex on 3k, there's absolutely no difference than if you didn't use tape at all. Think about it.

Cheers, Steve

The Suehiro will bring your edge to scary sharp. What others are trying to accomplish with pastes or sprays the Suehiro is doing outright. I don't know what your edges were like prior but the Suehiro will demand a light touch when shaving. It's a different edge than that of a natural. I hope it works put for you. It's been the best thing I've added to my honing set up.

I hope I can figure out the Suehiro. I bought it because I wanted to get a little bit more out of my edges. As far as hone wear, what Steve 56 makes sense in theory. I have, however, ruined a Filly on a 1k. For some reason the 3k doesn't cause the damage to the spine the 1k does. Perhaps you are right and I am not really evening out the bevel with the 3k. Perhaps I should tape the whole way through. I will think about it and will do some tests with a sharpie. With the Filly, the 1k just ate up the spine. I sold the razor for a fraction of what I paid for it. I recognize the need for the 1k but don't trust it at all.

Originally Posted by dcaven

I hope I can figure out the Suehiro. I bought it because I wanted to get a little bit more out of my edges. As far as hone wear, what Steve 56 makes sense in theory. I have, however, ruined a Filly on a 1k. For some reason the 3k doesn't cause the damage to the spine the 1k does. Perhaps you are right and I am not really evening out the bevel with the 3k. Perhaps I should tape the whole way through. I will think about it and will do some tests with a sharpie. With the Filly, the 1k just ate up the spine. I sold the razor for a fraction of what I paid for it. I recognize the need for the 1k but don't trust it at all.

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If you have an issue with electrical tape which has an average thickness of .007 inch, my Brown & Sharpe micrometer measures a piece of Scotch tape as being .004 inch. My Starrett micrometer measures the Scotch tape at .004 inch also. This may or may not alleviate some of the issue. Just a thought on your behalf. Good luck with your hone wear issue.

One other idea might be to hone all the way through your progression using only one piece of Scotch tape on each of the stones. You only need a 1k 3 or 4k and an 8k to get a great shave. What if that works and you never even tried it? Again, good luck with your issue.....

Originally Posted by dcaven

I hope I can figure out the Suehiro. I bought it because I wanted to get a little bit more out of my edges. As far as hone wear, what Steve 56 makes sense in theory. I have, however, ruined a Filly on a 1k. For some reason the 3k doesn't cause the damage to the spine the 1k does. Perhaps you are right and I am not really evening out the bevel with the 3k. Perhaps I should tape the whole way through. I will think about it and will do some tests with a sharpie. With the Filly, the 1k just ate up the spine. I sold the razor for a fraction of what I paid for it. I recognize the need for the 1k but don't trust it at all.

I've always found the tape/no tape argument as an amusing and entertaining side note that scratches my instigator itch. But in reality, I doubt it has anything to do with a harsh edge on way or another. So debate that all day for various conceptual perspectives but the harshness is a separate issue. Maybe try fewer strokes on it and see how that works for you. It makes about as much sense to give you a honing recipe as it does to continue the tape argument. But generally, I do 5-10 laps on a 12k before doing 10-20 laps on the 20k. It all just depends on how the razor is behaving and how I prefer it.

Just a thought and dcaven maybe this was already discussed and I missed it but some (even many) razors will never take a 20K edge. Some razors edges can start breaking down past the 8K mark. The GMN 200 is does not impart a harsh edge for a synthetic stone IMO.
Mike

If you put tape on the spine at 1k then hone back to the apex on 3k, there's absolutely no difference than if you didn't use tape at all. Think about it.

No, not really, because the bevels are already flat, so you just have to get them to meet by removing just a bit of steel, a lot less wear on the spine.

Problem is, as said, probably did not hone all the way to the edge on the 3K.

If the 20k is not hitting the edge, you are shaving on a 1K edge, or at least a partial 1K edge, or there is a problem with the 20K face. Ink is your friend...

Originally Posted by Steve56

I'm not sure I buy the "I need tape to avoid honewear" argument. Ideally, the spine and edge should wear together to maintain bevel geometry, on typical razors that don't need the goldwash or damascus pattern on the spine preserved, or whose makers set the bevel angle with tape.

I understand the microbevel thing, and that's fine, but just to use tape at 1k to "prevent hone wear" is probably questionable. If you put tape on the spine at 1k then hone back to the apex on 3k, there's absolutely no difference than if you didn't use tape at all. Think about it.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by dcaven

I hope I can figure out the Suehiro. I bought it because I wanted to get a little bit more out of my edges. As far as hone wear, what Steve 56 makes sense in theory. I have, however, ruined a Filly on a 1k. For some reason the 3k doesn't cause the damage to the spine the 1k does. Perhaps you are right and I am not really evening out the bevel with the 3k. Perhaps I should tape the whole way through. I will think about it and will do some tests with a sharpie. With the Filly, the 1k just ate up the spine. I sold the razor for a fraction of what I paid for it. I recognize the need for the 1k but don't trust it at all.

I used to hold to the idea that the spine and bevel needed to wear together. I honed with tape for a year, then without it for about a year. I finally came to the conclusion that tape is a better choice ....... for me ...... YMMV.



What ever anomaly there is in the spine will show in the bevel if the spine is taped. IOW, it will work out in the bevel, but it won't create a problem in terms of achieving a shave ready edge. Below see two Robert Williams SRP limited editions. The prototype, in the foreground, was honed with no tape, and the other with tape. Both are great shavers.

That may be true but, first of all, I don't want the spine work or original spine damaged if possible. Second, I just don't like tape. I don't want to tape each razor every time I want to do a quick touch up. A quick touch up soon becomes more than that with me spending time taping, untaping and applying some sort of solvent to get rid of the glue the tape has left behind. The only reason I use the 1k and 3k at all is they save a tremendous amount of time setting the bevel versus setting the bevel on a coticule. I want to use the 1k to set the bevel and the 3k without tape to correct the geometry. The best idea I have heard so far is to use a Sharpie on the bevel before honing on the 3k.