Thread: 8k Norton to 12k Naniwa - Is a finisher worth it...observations from a Noob

I thought I would post up a few of my observations coming off of a weekend with some honing successes. I want to address an observation I have made based on the myriad of videos I have watched about honing from the various common sources, as well as a few not-so-common ones.

In almost all of the videos I have watched, the various honers comment about technically being able to shave off of a 1k, a 4k, and most certainly an 8k. I have yet to get to that lofty place on a 1k or 4k so I will leave that alone, but I do want to address the BIG differences between the 8k and a finisher, in my example, a Naniwa 12k.

Can one shave off of an 8k? Absolutely. I find that the Norton 4k/8k combo stone is a fantastic beginners setup requiring little in the way of setup beyond lapping. Slurries aren't much of a consideration, and they really are a go-to stone. After getting a good bevel on the 4k, then polishing on the 8k...the edge really does begin to take a mirror shine and the scratch lines are pretty minimized at that point. It strops well, and shaves nicely.

The progression to the 12k takes things to another level, however, and I really do understand why so many advanced honers use one (a finisher that is). It, to me, is like the difference between a hand wax for ones car and using an orbital and a polish/wax combo. One is good, the other is spectacular. Granted the barriers to entry are fairly high to the finisher stone world. Its another ~$100 for a dedicated stone, new.

Is it worth it?

As a noob honer, I would say yes. Anything worth doing is worth doing right the first time. The mirror finish on the edge is visible without assistance. With a loupe the difference between 8k and 12k is even more profound. The difference in shaving results is also resounding. CCS to BBS using the same steps and 2 pass shave (my methodology due to my sensitive skin).

To those prospective beginners out there who are uncertain about honing, I would say wait a tad longer, save up, and get the 4k/8k combo and a finisher like the 12k Naniwa as a starter set. It is a move to get a more complete tool box out of the gate. The advantages are marked, and having the 12k around not only finishes edges very well, but can also be used to do slight refinements and touch-ups on those that don't need any additional work.

Just my thoughts on how to get a good start to honing, from a noob to a noob!

That's the exact same set-up that I ended up getting; Norton 4/8K & Naniwa 12K. I wish someone would have told me this when I first started. It certainly would have saved me a bunch of money and many frustrating hone sessions. This set-up is perfect for a newbie. The stones are fast and forgiving, and the Nani gives a really smooth finish.

For a brand-newbie, just start with the Norton 4/8K because the 8K is just fine for a decent edge. Then when money comes in, get the 12K as a bonus.

Originally Posted by jbtusa

That's the exact same set-up that I ended up getting; Norton 4/8K & Naniwa 12K. I wish someone would have told me this when I first started. It certainly would have saved me a bunch of money and many frustrating hone sessions. This set-up is perfect for a newbie. The stones are fast and forgiving, and the Nani gives a really smooth finish.

For a brand-newbie, just start with the Norton 4/8K because the 8K is just fine for a decent edge. Then when money comes in, get the 12K as a bonus.

I also got a 220/1k Norton combo, but as many mention, outside of total restoration of an edge, it is not necessary. I have only gone down to the 1k twice thus far...I would rather spend more time on the 4k than take off too much metal accidentally on the 1k.

The problem with having the naniwa 12k is now I'm wondering if the suehiro 20k is like the difference from 8k-12k. I'm getting awesome edges from the naniwa but what if.... From one AD to another... So glad I haven't found any interest in naturals.

Originally Posted by jfk742

The problem with having the naniwa 12k is now I'm wondering if the suehiro 20k is like the difference from 8k-12k. I'm getting awesome edges from the naniwa but what if.... From one AD to another... So glad I haven't found any interest in naturals.

I am sure there is some level of difference...I use Chromium and Iron Oxide on balsa to finish up on that level. While I totally see the value in the 12k over the 8k, I don't know that I will ever hone as many razors as would be necessary to justify having one of those around!

You guys made me want to break out the naniwa SS 12k and the Suehiro 20k and touch up my razor.
The mirror bevel will be tested tomorrow.

Originally Posted by jbtusa

That's the exact same set-up that I ended up getting; Norton 4/8K & Naniwa 12K. I wish someone would have told me this when I first started. It certainly would have saved me a bunch of money and many frustrating hone sessions. This set-up is perfect for a newbie. The stones are fast and forgiving, and the Nani gives a really smooth finish.

For a brand-newbie, just start with the Norton 4/8K because the 8K is just fine for a decent edge. Then when money comes in, get the 12K as a bonus.

I respect your experience but have different advice for a newbies. If I had to do it again I would buy a finisher first and begin learn first how to touch up, then work backwards.

I do agree a Norton 4/8 followed by a Nani 12k is a fantastic setup.

I agree with Andy 77's statement to start with a known finisher for touch ups, having said that I have the Norton combos because there is so much info available on them.

Like Andy77, I put the cart before the horse and went straight to the Nortons and a bevel set, it turned out OK but I had a mentor in my area.

Originally Posted by Andy77

I respect your experience but have different advice for a newbies. If I had to do it again I would buy a finisher first and begin learn first how to touch up, then work backwards.

I do agree a Norton 4/8 followed by a Nani 12k is a fantastic setup.

This is a great way to start honing.
Have a blade that has a great bevel set by a pro. Then maintain that bevel with finishers.
Buy a crappy blade to practice with to learn honing skills.

Originally Posted by Scareface

This is a great way to start honing.
Have a blade that has a great bevel set by a pro. Then maintain that bevel with finishers.
Buy a crappy blade to practice with to learn honing skills.

I agree here, and that was the progression that I took. I will say, however, that there was a lot I could not do with a finisher alone personally, especially with a couple of razors that I did a little bit of damage to while I was learning to shave. It made sense for me to have both the 4k/8k combo as well as the 12k. I think at the end of the day that having both is a good thing, as there really isn't much one can't do with both of those in their possession.

Having said that, learning the basic strokes and getting a little bit of muscle memory with the 12k finisher is really a good idea, as it doesn't cut fast, so little mistakes are not magnified by the cutting power of the stone.

I think what I was getting at was that as I learned, one thing that has become very important to me are visual cues of progression. These can be very difficult to identify on the finisher, as the end result is a very mirror-like finish. If a razor needs a little more, the 8k, and especially the 4k, will make that easily apparent to the untrained eye. I always try to use the highest grit possible and only move down if I need to cut metal off incrementally. When doing a refresh I know I need more than the 12k on, I start at the 8k and see what the blade tells me after a series of no-pressure x strokes. Most of the time that has been enough for me, and I do 10-20 more there, then finish on the 12k. A few times I had to go down to the 4k...doing the same thing to see if the bevel is developing across the edge, then pyramids with 4k/8k and finisher. Only twice now have I had to go down to the 1k..and both by design as I purchased razors that needed a total refresh specifically to learn more.