Thread: Hones and Edges Under the Microscope

It's still possible to get DE blades with bad edges. It's not common, but from my time hanging out at B&B it doesn't seem rare, either.

In my personal experience, a microscope is most helpful for identifying a bad edge. An edge that looks good under magnification may or may not shave well. I used my microscope constantly for several months, but I haven't picked it up since Christmas. It taught me a lot, and now I can get the same information from other tests.

Just my 2 cents,
Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

It's still possible to get DE blades with bad edges. It's not common, but from my time hanging out at B&B it doesn't seem rare, either.

Yup, both ASR and Feather have been inconsistent for me. My very first feather AC blade was so dull it wouldn't scrape armhair. The *next* one was the stuff of myth and legend though...

Tony, I should have pointed out that I was speaking of replaceable blades. They are manufactured in very large quantities. No doubt this accounts for more money available for QC . That Dovo says their traditional straight razors are shave ready is their view. They don't sell that many and so there isn't much money available to QC the product very well. We may be more demanding than they are. But I think that you would have to look long and hard to find anyone that would say that a replaceable Feather straight razor blade was not shave ready!

Originally Posted by rgdominguez

ACTUALLY ... SMOOTHNESS, CLOSENESS AND COMFORT IN THE RESULTING SHAVE. WE CAN DO ALL THIS TOO!

No need to shout.

Rgdominguez, do you stay connected with people in Material Science and/or metallurgy at the University level? Perhaps you/they could get/reference some research papers and/or dissertations that have included the topics of sharpening and making edges. It's hard to believe that all the knowledge in that area was generated in the industrial sector alone. At the level of detail we need, I'd guess this research was likely done long ago, so it should be readily available?

Joe, I wasn't meaning to shout! I know that some take capital letters that way. In this case, I accidentally hit the Caps Lock key and by the time I noticed it, I didn't have the heart to erase everything and type it over, I'm a 2 finger pecking kind of typist! I do work with university material scientests and will gather together some references.

This is all very interesting and let me ask this:

Does Tim use a straight razor?

If so - he can help this discussion a lot by test-shaving the edges he showed and sharing comments.

If he doesn't - I am sure some razor jedi here would love to get to test his beauties (which may be even better - if we do it blind to the stones) I am not a "master" but have tried a few and I think I can make a good comparison - so if it comes to this - send them my way

B&B is running a similar experiment and while I will argue that there are too many things that are not addressed properly - the shaving test will be more appropriate.

Classic Shaving states that Tim hones the razors. So - Tim is ultiumately interested to see what gives a better shaving edge, not a better looking edge. If the edge looks just as good as a Feather (if this is possible) but does not shave well - somebody will buy it and be dissatisfied, and even potentially hurt himself (or herself ) - not good. Since Tim is not selling bazzilion of these, it would not be problematic to test shave with each. To be fair - the test shave is still very subjective and may not work for all buyers 100% of the times but other than the buyer testing the actual blade this is the best we have.

Cheers
Ivo

This is from the Schick website:

The inspection procedures include visual and microscopic examinations, chemical and metallurgical testing, physical testing of blade strength and durability, and electronic video inspection systems. However, the final assessment of shave quality rests with the shaver. All shave testing is conducted using humans as test subjects. To this end, thousands of men and women participate in shave testing of all product lines every day. Local shave panels evaluate the quality of the manufactured products before they leave the building on their way to the consumers' hands. Other panels evaluate production from all manufacturing facilities to ensure consistent quality from one plant to another.

I'm sure the marketing guys wrote this, so it may may be only approximately accurate, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Edit: The P&G website is completely, utterly useless. There isn't even a Gillette section, just a single page each for the various gillette products they think are worth hawking. Gah! If I weren't such a Luddite I might use the Schick razors just because of that abomination of a website.

When I was a kid one of my uncles took me on a tour of the shop where he worked. He was a machinist and worked for the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. In fact he made the first heart-lung machine. In showing off the shop, he took me by a machine which absolutely facscinated me. That machine sharpened knives used to section samples for pathology work. It had a large, horizontal circular plate that looked like green glass and which rotated slowly against a knife held in a clamp that would hold one side to the plate, then rotate it so the other side was held to the plate. Once having gone through the correct number of cycles to get sharpened properly, these knives would slice off .002" thick sections of samples so they could be microscopically examined.

I just figure that somehow we should be able to not only replicate edges like that, but also be able to describe them as well. Perhaps it is not as simple as pointing to the picture and saying, "see, see, that's what it should look like," but it would be something pretty close to that. "Get close to that appearance, and you're probably using a correct technique and getting close to the edge you want."

Dream on grasshopper, dream on, Bruce

Originally Posted by mparker762

I'm sure the marketing guys wrote this, so it may may be only approximately accurate, but it's interesting nonetheless.

That Nat'l Geographic documentary about shaving that someone linked to way back had lots of footage of these "local shave panels." Guys shaving in "private" cubicles with 2-way mirrors, and Gillette analysts on the other side studying their strokes, patterns, how long it takes them, etc. Then they ask these local shave volunteers lots of questions about their preferences. So I don't think it's total BS.

Unfortunately the documentary producers seemed to rely pretty heavily on industry guys. When it came to the straight shaving segment, they had a video of an awkward-looking fellow honing, flipping on the edge after each stroke, then an interview with a professor explaining that it's "physically impossible" to shave yourself with a straight razor. It was pretty funny.

Originally Posted by Bruce

I just figure that somehow we should be able to not only replicate edges like that

How did they shave? Whiskers, I mean, not frozen tissue samples. I'm sure they shaved tissue samples just fine...