Thread: First time honing - questions...

Don’t recall where I first read this, I know Iwasaki talks about it in his essay, to strop on a Wool, Chromium Oxide, pasted strop, (Raxa Hone), to remove the false edge,(small burr) in before going to the water only finish stone.

The goal of everything that you do, after the 1k has joined the two bevels, to meet in a sharp edge, is polishing the bevels, to make a straighter edge, a more comfortable shaving edge. If you leave a burr you can end up polishing the burr that will later break off leaving a ragged edge or chip. So remove any burr now and ensure you are polishing good steel at the edge.

Stropping on linen or canvas will straighten the edge, removing the burr and also remove any remaining 1k grit that your rinsing and wiping did not get. Failing to properly clean the razor and work station, I believe is a common cause of much of novice honer’s frustration with deep scratch removal. If you leave just one piece of grit on the razor it will produce a 1k scratch on your 3 or 4k stone. So clean it well before moving up in grits.

I use a plain canvas strop for stropping post 1K and a Chrome Oxide pasted canvas to strop, post 8k and 12k. You could use a Chrome Oxide pasted strop as well.

Stropping post 1K does seem to make the edge straighter a bit quicker, I have also noticed less micro chipping in the higher grits. I have seen some guys strop on plain leather, between stones, but I like the results on canvas or linen better. Leather works well, between the higher grits, but Chrome Oxide is a bit faster at polishing an edge at the higher grits.

Thanks for the explanation! Makes good sense. I did the stropping, circles an then 17 sets of 15 x strokes. It looks better, thought still a few remnants of horizontal marks from circles at lower grit. For grins, it tried a progression with the 4k/8k Nortons, doing 10/10, 5/5, 3/3, 1/1, 1/3, 1/5.

It really seems to cut arm hair easily. I don't seem to see any burr on either end. I was thinking of trying to strip and test shave, just to see how it feels. I do need to figure out if I should go back to 1k to get the rest of the horizontal marks, or proceed with 4k, 8k, and 12k.

Give this a try. Cut a piece of cardboard, about 12 X 3 like a cereal box inside, paste a series of 3 inch X’s with a good metal polish, Mothers, Maas, or Semi Chrome.

Now strop 25-50 laps on the edge of a table or bench. See if the scratches are removed, it will leave a harsh edge, so re-set the bevel on the 12K, probably 15-20 laps.

Check the edge, by looking straight down on the edge, looking for light shining back at you, (a chip). If it is good, strop, if not drop down to the 8K and re-set the edge and finish on the 12K. If the scratches are too deep you may have to go back to the 1k and work up. Thanks to the 220 grit, a double edge sword.

Maas on a canvas hanging strop will quickly remove bevel scratches, but as said leaves a harsh edge and a bit of a convex bevel and will need to be finished honed.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Give this a try. Cut a piece of cardboard, about 12 X 3 like a cereal box inside, paste a series of 3 inch X’s with a good metal polish, Mothers, Maas, or Semi Chrome.

Now strop 25-50 laps on the edge of a table or bench. See if the scratches are removed, it will leave a harsh edge, so re-set the bevel on the 12K, probably 15-20 laps.

Check the edge, by looking straight down on the edge, looking for light shining back at you, (a chip). If it is good, strop, if not drop down to the 8K and re-set the edge and finish on the 12K. If the scratches are too deep you may have to go back to the 1k and work up. Thanks to the 220 grit, a double edge sword.

Maas on a canvas hanging strop will quickly remove bevel scratches, but as said leaves a harsh edge and a bit of a convex bevel and will need to be finished honed.

Will give that a try. The one web page about bread-knifing suggested to do some strokes on the 220 as well. In hindsight, I shouldn't have done that. For the most part, the edge looks like this right now:



There are still some spots near the toe that have some horizontal or curved marks, like this:



The ruler in the background is with 1mm marks.

Here is a lower rez shot (I seem to only have two resolutions available):

Give the metal polish strop a try, at least you will see which if any, stria you need to remove. Then decide how low a stone you need, nothing lower than a 1k.

There does appear to be some straight stria deeper that the diagonal stria you are worried about.

Strop it and you will know which will be problematic.

I know some use 220, but unless you are removing a very large chip, a 1k will get it out without the issues you are facing now.

The question you have to ask yourself is, looking back… how much time did you save? So the right answer is, you learned something, you are not alone.

Well, I was away from this for a while, and finally got back to trying to work on the blade. I think I made Inge worse unfortunately. I didn't have any metal polish, so I decided to do circles and X strokes to get out some of the marks.

Well, part way through, I realized I forgot to tape the blade. I checked and it had a second bevel forming. I put on tape, and then continued until I had restored the bevel to a single bevel.

I looked and the deeper striations seemed to be gone. It also seemed to had a good point on the bevel - no shines spots or wire edge that I could tell. However, I see two issues...

One, the bevel seems wider on one side than the other. More importantly, it didn't seem to shave hairs on my arm well at all, and not across the entire edge, like before.

I spent more time yesterday, with it at 1k, and it is better, but still not as good as before.

Did I end up wearing the spine more on one side than the other?
Should the uneven bevel width be fixed and, if so, how?

I'll try to post pictures tomorrow or Tuesday. Not quite sure how to proceed. I certainly took two steps back...

Regards,

Don’t worry about uneven bevels, a number of thing can cause this, uneven grind, a bit of warp or spine wear. All of those things cannot be corrected. That they don’t match or are even the same width at the heel and toe, does not matter. The edge is all that matters.

The bevels look nice and flat, with a good stria pattern, but the edge looks ragged, so you should be able to get the bevels to meet quickly. Put 2 layers of tape on the spine and hone the bevels on your 8K, the edge should come together quickly in about 20-30 laps.

Hear is an easy test to check you edge for a completely set bevel. Sharp Test Video.

I took some shots tonight, here is the edge, after the latest work with 1K (I haven't moved up to 4K or 8K yet)...

The edge, straight on:


For each side. Hard to keep in focus:


These are at the max magnification on the microscope 200-300x.

Keep at it...I know your frustration, when I hone a razor, I've done about 15 now from bevel set up, I just realize that unless a miracle happens, and it has twice, it will take me at least one session (2-4hrs) to set the bevel, sometimes three. Once that is done, then I can relax and have "fun" with the other stones, because we all know honing is supposed to be relaxing....right!?!

Looks good, but there is some pitting on the bevel and above the bevel, did this razor have Cell Rot or heavy pitting? If so, you may have trouble getting it to hold an edge.

Move on the the 4k and refine the edge, use tape on the spine. Most of the pitting on the bevel and edge should hone away. At 8k you edge should get very straight and chip free.