Thread: I can't get consistent with setting the bevel

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Every razor is an individual when it comes to honing,,, not every "routine" applies to each razor you come across.

Bevel setting varies from razor to razor, with a lot of factors that may only be relevant to that particular razor.

Well poop. Also - that's why I picked up a few of them.

It may seem like I'm pushing this - but here's the trick. I'm at a point in my life where I can burn time on something that I really enjoy doing, and I'm thinking to myself: imagine it was a 150 years ago and I was training to do this for a living. I'd be grinding metal all daaaay long.

this one does: https://youtu.be/

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

You know, I looked at all the darn honing videos I can find online - but none of them tell you just how much pressure to use. Sometimes I feel like I'll just have to wait till that meetup in Seattle to see how a real honemaster does it in person... till then I think I'm just fumbling... but when it works... oh when it works... <3

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

...I have acquired a number of cheapo older hollow ground razors from eBay in order to practice honing. As far as I can tell none of them have any geometry issues.

What is your test of geometry?

Start with no pressure and change from there...none, just the razor's weight floating over the stone, so to speak. I believe site delivered pressure can be useful on a geometrically challenged blade...I don't have those, I get rid of them as I don't enjoy the gymnastics. It is probably more important for a real honemaster to see your technique.

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

You know, I looked at all the darn honing videos I can find online - but none of them tell you just how much pressure to use. Sometimes I feel like I'll just have to wait till that meetup in Seattle to see how a real honemaster does it in person... till then I think I'm just fumbling... but when it works... oh when it works... <3

You should practice more. When you hone incorrectly you have to correct the mistakes along the way. So setting a bevel is not simply the art of precisely shaping the bevel; it's the act of correcting your mistakes as you go along.

All razors have geometry issues, and you need to learn to improve your ability "to tell". When I set a bevel I always conduct my finishing strokes and if the finishing strokes don't work, there is a geometry issue. I try to find the issue by fixing every potential problem. I do it this way because every time I've asked the razor what the issue was I never got an answer and because staring at the razor really hard doesn't help me either.

The only technique I've found that produces any actionable evidence is running the razor over my arm hair; bevel balance can be evaluated by running the razor in two orientations. If the razor cuts better in one orientation over the other, the symmetry is off. Typically I add additional strokes to the side of the razor that is the "bottom" when conducting this evaluation. Obviously, the bottom changes based on the razors orientation. So, shave arm hair, flip razor over and shave again, evaluate. It's far from perfect but it's been a really useful little bevel setting trick.

I typically do ten, or so, light passes only to the side of the razor that was on the bottom during the pass that produced the poorest cutting performance. I'll often do this a few times until the cutting performance is equal in both orientations.

It's essential to follow this up with repeated testing in a similar fashion to evaluate corrections.

By far though, perfecting your stroke to eliminate issues is still critical. Even if you use this trick to correct the problem a weakness in your stroke balance will induce new errors as you hone.

It will take some practice to learn how to do this, don't just try it once and discount it.

Also bevel or round the edges of the stone, if the stone is flat but the bevels are sharp, each time you drag the edge across that corner you are undoing all the honing you just did.

And get some lighted magnification, so you can see what you are doing.

All razors have geometry issues

If true, it means you have honed all razors...

Originally Posted by WW243

If true, it means you have honed all razors...

Yea, it's zen like . . . every imperfection placed on a canvas is put there by an artist. He must take credit for the art and the mistakes.

In the same vein, no razor is perfect, we just accept those that shave perfectly.

Or, if you're saying that I'm the one screwing up all the razors in the world, you might have another good point there too.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yea, it's zen like . . . every imperfection placed on a canvas is put there by an artist. He must take credit for the art and the mistakes.

In the same vein, no razor is perfect, we just accept those that shave perfectly.

Or, if you're saying that I'm the one screwing up all the razors in the world, you might have another good point there too.

I embrace the subterfuge of semantics with open arms...well, then I close them.

Hey, Who.

I find myself remaining w/ those advocates of learning the shave before learning to hone. Judging by your join date, you're new. 'Nuthing wrong w/ that & its commendable that you're choosing quality in a shave. It just means that there are a few things that are far from intuitive still.

No geometry issues? You were asked how you decided that.

Utopian & AFDavis give really good input.

I'd ask about the magic marker test results, but when most (very much myself included) try it - it gives marginal info 'cause we haven't really gotten the feel of what a 'no pressure' finishing stroke is. That can take some time to learn.

The good news is that you live in an area where there are a number of guys skilled w/ the rocks. You might check for guys that hone in your area - or if you make it down to Portland, let me know & we can get some time. That face to face time is invaluable - greatly accellerates your learning curve. 'Seems we'll be having a NW meet-up next month. You can literally learn more in a day than you will in months of any other method. Don't take my word for that - you'll find many who've experienced it. The honorable Sixgunner is the resident honemeister for those meet-ups. Time with him will have you tearing out less hair, losing less blood, etc.

When your first shaveable edges happen, you're gonna be on top of the world - and for good reason. Its an accomplishment. I hope to hear when that day happens - I'll be cheering.