Thread: Improper bevel development

You probably overhoned the razor again. After comming off the Norton you only need to do 10-20 strokes on the coticule not 15 minutes. More strokes is not better, the right amount of strokes is. I recommend that you purchase Lynn's DVD. There is a great section on honing in the DVD that should really help you.

If I were you I would take the Wipienica that is shaving but pulling and do a 3-3, 1-3, 1-5 on the Norton with light even pressure. Then wet the yellow coticule and do 10 to 20 passes on that. Finally do 10-20 passes on the chromium oxide. Strop the razor and test shave. Let us know how the test shave goes and we can advise you further if the razor is still not there.

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

You probably overhoned the razor again. After comming off the Norton you only need to do 10-20 strokes on the coticule not 15 minutes. More strokes is not better, the right amount of strokes is. I recommend that you purchase Lynn's DVD. There is a great section on honing in the DVD that should really help you.

Thanks for your help again.

All during the honing I was testing the edge with the HHT, arm hair, thumbnail test, thumb pad test.

At no point did it "feel" sharp. It has never passed the HHT and only cuts a few of my arm hairs, unlike my properly honed razors.

Also, it does not seem to exhibit any of the overhoning characteristics such as a roughness on the back of the thumbnail or thumbpad test. And no square chips in the blade edge.

It never occured to me that this would be over honed, but maybe you are right? Is there any definitive test for that?

Thanks,
Chad

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

If I were you I would take the Wipienica that is shaving but pulling and do a 3-3, 1-3, 1-5 on the Norton with light even pressure. Then wet the yellow coticule and do 10 to 20 passes on that. Finally do 10-20 passes on the chromium oxide. Strop the razor and test shave. Let us know how the test shave goes and we can advise you further if the razor is still not there.

I will do that tonight and let you know.

Thanks so much.

Originally Posted by silver2k

Thanks for your help again.

All during the honing I was testing the edge with the HHT, arm hair, thumbnail test, thumb pad test.

At no point did it "feel" sharp. It has never passed the HHT and only cuts a few of my arm hairs, unlike my properly honed razors.

Also, it does not seem to exhibit any of the overhoning characteristics such as a roughness on the back of the thumbnail or thumbpad test. And no square chips in the blade edge.

It never occured to me that this would be over honed, but maybe you are right? Is there any definitive test for that?

Thanks,
Chad

Do NOT do the thumbnail test anymore as it will dull the edge that you are trying so hard to polish. The thumbnail test should only done in the early stages of honing a razor to test to see whether a good initial bevel has been established. You can use the thumbpad test or the hanging hair test to compare your edge to your professionally honed razors at this stage because they will not damage the edge; however, they are just tests. Different razors with different grinds and steels will react differently to these tests so the real test should be the shave test. If you have been doing the thumbnail test up till this point I might suggest doing a 5-5, 3-3, 1-3, 1-5 pyramid instead of the 3-3 (the 3-3 might be enough though). then do 10-20 passes on the coticule followed by 10-20 passes on the chromium oxide. Strop the razor and test shave. If you are close but not there then do another 10 passes on the .5 paste. If that does not get you there then do another 1-3, 1-5 on the Norton followed by the coticule then the paste again. It sounds like you are getting very close so you don't want to do too many passes. Like I said earlier if you need any more help feel free to give me a call.

I'm going to jump in here and suggest something unorthadox. Since you have a coticule, you could just stick with that instead of going to the Norton. The coticule is a slow hone, and it's difficult to overhone with it. When I'm having trouble with a wire edge, I grab the coticule and use my rubbing stone to build up a nice slurry. The coticule seems to just clean off the wire slowly and bring up a beautiful edge. (Some members use a coticule exclusively to hone their razors.)

If it's pretty close to shave-ready, build a slurry and do 30 strokes. Test on your arm hair. If you're near shave-ready, it should slice arm hair effortlessly. Keep doing this until you're able to easily shave arm hair. Then clean off the slurry and do 10 to 20 strokes on the clean, wet stone. That puts a final polish on the edge.

The Norton is a great stone, but sometimes I wonder if a coticule wouldn't be a better choice for someone just starting out with honing...

Just a thought,
Josh

Ok I think my technique is just terrible or something. I did the 5-5 pyramid then spent some time on the coticule. The bevel looks great under the microscope but it is dull as heck. I put the thumbpad test and it doesn't even cut in. I can put a pound or two of pressure and it won't even cut into my thumbpad.

I don't think I am rolling the edge into the hone at the end of the stroke, but I am going to start lifting the edge at the end of my stroke just to see if that fixes it.

You guys are killing me!

You're doing all the right things but coming up with unexpected results. The only thing I would recommend you do at this point is to hone with the coticule and then use a natural, untreated leather strop. Stropping is different from honing and when I have used strops with treatments, they act more like hones. It's quite possible you're degrading the edge at the strop stage.

I'm glad you're looking at the edge with a microscope but have two questions. Are you looking at both sides of the blade and are you looking out to the toe of the blade. I find more problems out at the toe end than I have with the heel. The toe is where I shave that hollow between my throat and neck and that has to be sharp indeed! Many new razors I've sharpened have been dull there.

I agree with Heavy that the length of bevel is not as important as the way the razor shaves but an uneven sine wave bevel is indicative of something! It indicates uneven pressure on the edge of the blade which could be a result of where you're placing you're fingers on the razor when you hone.

Lastly, blades vary by steel and heat treatment. Try some other razors and see if your results are repeatable. If not, you know the problem.

Howard

Ok just an update for everyone. I was called away on an emergency business trip so had to put my honing skills on hold for a little bit.

Last night I spent about 20 minutes on the yellow coticule then did about 15 laps on the chromium oxide bench strop. I made sure to use super light pressure this time.

I don't know if the light pressure was the change factor(since I haven't honed in a bit) or if it just finally clicked. The razor felt a lot sharper and passed the HHT barely on the toe. I decided to strop and shave with it this morning comparing it to my Bob Keyes razor.

This was the first shave I have had with my own honing that did NOT feel like I was shaving with velcro. It wasn't a great shave, but it was definitely passable.

Tomorrow I am going to start with another Wapienica from scratch and see how I end up. This one worked out pretty well...but it took a lot of tries to get it there.

My edge looks perfect under the microscope now. There is very little variation and it is smooth with no chips.

Thanks for your help heavyduty and Howard.

Thanks!
Chad