Thread: Question About Finishing with Coticule and Taping

Hi,

I've been trying to hone a couple of blades myself, now that I have some professionally honed edges to compare to. I have a couple of questions though.


I honed a Greaves near wedge on a King 1K/6K combo stone. After using the 6k, the bevel looked close to a mirror finish. When I finished on my coticule though, it actually looked duller. Is this normal or am I not doing it right?





TAPING
Exactly what type of tape do you use?
I used electrical tape and it leaves lines/stains on blade that won't come off. I tried Goof Off and Flitz and it still wouldn't come off, so I guess I'll have to use steel wool. This may be because it was really cheap.
I was going to get some 3M electrical at WM, but all they had was Duck brand. I used it and it started coming apart on the stone REALLY quickly. Would 3M be better, or do I need to be using a different type of tape?


Thanks

In Canada all the better tapes are marked CSA approved, it also makes them more expensive. However it is usually the good stuff. I would expect that if you stick to the known brands you will be ok. As for the marks on your hone they should come off with your lapping/cleaning routine. As we hone the hone get loaded with swarf. It is also black and reduces the exposed grit. You need to clean that up on a regular basis. Many people use a diamond hone for cleaning, it does flatten your hone a little but should not be confused with true lapping, where the object is to get your hone truly flat. With coticules, I think it is quite common to clean the hone with the rubbing stone.
The other thought I have about tape, if you think the tape is loading up your hone and not the swarf, you can always use a different color of tape. Currently I am using red. Most likely if you are getting a lot of tape wear on your hone you are putting too much pressure on the spine. As you are honing the blade should have a small amount of torque pushing down on the edge without pushing down on the spine. That is a little off topic but related.

My fav. Coti finish is to put down the Coti & reach for another stone. I'm lousy w/ the coti finish. I enjoy & used them quite regularly, but I've known few guys that got the magic they wanted from them without buying & selling alot until they found the right one. I'm in the wrong tax bracket for that. Bart, over at the old coticule.be maintained they would all do a great job. I suspect intimate knowledge in their use is the real magic.

Some good things will come from the effort. You're gonna get really good at an uber-light touch in your stroke. You'll have lots of strokes to practice with, unless you use a La Petite Blanche or other orange-colored fast cutting coti. The fast cutters will hose your edge as fast as they improve it - so pay attention to progress.

You might want to talk to Lynn about his method, which is circles w/ serious pressure & a few x-strokes, then dilute & repeat w/ very light pressure, then clear water w/ 10 very light x-strokes. If I'm remembering the detail incorrectly, pls. forgive me & listen to Lynn on it. You'll find any excuse to talk to him will be a pleasure.

Many types of natural stone will leave a satin finish as opposed to shiny synth finish. The edge is what is important. 3M 33+ is a good tape.
Mike

Originally Posted by JP5

Hi,

I've been trying to hone a couple of blades myself, now that I have some professionally honed edges to compare to. I have a couple of questions though.

I honed a Greaves near wedge on a King 1K/6K combo stone. After using the 6k, the bevel looked close to a mirror finish. When I finished on my coticule though, it actually looked duller. Is this normal or am I not doing it right?

Originally Posted by MODINE

Many types of natural stone will leave a satin finish as opposed to shiny synth finish. The edge is what is important. 3M 33+ is a good tape.
Mike

Indeed, pretty much all coticule finishes are hazy as opposed to mirror shine.

Originally Posted by pinklather

Bart, over at the old coticule.be maintained they would all do a great job. I suspect intimate knowledge in their use is the real magic.

I have tried a few handfuls of coticule, and I tend to agree with Bart, I have yet to see find one that did not get me at least a good result after a few tries. But it does take getting to know at least one coticule very well. Just a lot of time, dedication and repetition, repetition, repetition.

About the tape lines: it might be the quality of the tape. Get some good 3M tape and do not worry about that. Also, make sure that you do not leave it on too long; I tend to change my tape after about ten minutes, clean off the spine with water and a towel. I had rust develop when I started out honing too (because that is what it probably is, if polish does not help), but changing out my tape sooner than I used to diminished the problem drastically.

IME nothing removes tape glue residue like lighter fluid or nail polish remover. Basically naphtha.

As Pithor said, tape lines in the belly of the blade can be caused by leaving the tape on too long. I've left a honing job for an hour or two, or even overnight, and a line is etched on the belly of the blade where the edge of the tape was.

Sometimes semichrome, flitz, or something like that, will remove it. Sometimes not. In that case I live with it. Steel wool or sandpaper leads to more work than I'm willing to do to remove said line. YMMV.

Originally Posted by pinklather

My fav. Coti finish is to put down the Coti & reach for another stone. I'm lousy w/ the coti finish. I enjoy & used them quite regularly, but I've known few guys that got the magic they wanted from them without buying & selling alot until they found the right one. I'm in the wrong tax bracket for that. Bart, over at the old coticule.be maintained they would all do a great job. I suspect intimate knowledge in their use is the real magic.

~~~here's a suggestion when it comes to honing using coticules. If you're having trouble and or you can't get HHT3 off the stone using dilucot http://coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html

Try using unicot http://coticule.be/unicot.html

A lot of us have had our fair share of frustration trying to get an HHT3 off the stone and HHT4 after stropping using the dilucot procedure

If you want HHT3 off the stone and you can't get it using dilucot, then go for unicot. There's no shame in using tape to get HHT3 off the stone and you'll get there with unicot. others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

I think why so many people seem to have trouble finding "the right" coticule is that a lot of those people use it purely as a finisher and expect miracles. Most coticules do not add any significant sharpness when finishing on just water. They smooth out the edge, but that is pretty much the extent of the coticule "magic" when used with water only. With most coticules there barely is any edge correction as such going on using plain water.

I have one that auto-slurries a tiny bit, so if the edge is lacking towards the finishing stage its easier to go back in the dilution phase to do some more profound edge work. Another one I have is relatively fast on water and can add a bit of keenness with some added pressure. However, these are exceptions rather than rules. I have one other coticule, an older one, and even though it is most capable, it is quite slow all round and really cannot be used to correct an insufficiently keen edge on water - which is the case with the lion's share of coticules I have tried.

Really, the impact of finishing (on whatever hone) is minimal and quite overrated. If anything, it adds feel/smoothness rather than sharpness.

Originally Posted by Pithor

Really, the impact of finishing (on whatever hone) is minimal and quite overrated. If anything, it adds feel/smoothness rather than sharpness.

Let's take your last statement and discuss how feel, smoothness, and sharpness, all together, can be achieved, using the lowly coticule=:-)

But first, we have to agree what a sharp edge is, and how to test for it, so what I find is comparable to what you find, as to sharpness

Can we agree that a razor that passes as an HHT4 is sharp enough to shave with and much better than shaving with an HHT3 edge? Yes? Okay, good, now to get there using a coticule, and at the sake of repeating myself...if you can't get an HHT4 after stropping using dilucot, try unicot. Works for me, consistently, and the hair I use to test using the HHT, is rather thin and fine, and not thick which is easier to cut using the HHT


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

Originally Posted by JP5

Hi,

I've been trying to hone a couple of blades myself, now that I have some professionally honed edges to compare to. I have a couple of questions though.


I honed a Greaves near wedge on a King 1K/6K combo stone. After using the 6k, the bevel looked close to a mirror finish. When I finished on my coticule though, it actually looked duller. Is this normal or am I not doing it right?





TAPING
Exactly what type of tape do you use?
I used electrical tape and it leaves lines/stains on blade that won't come off. I tried Goof Off and Flitz and it still wouldn't come off, so I guess I'll have to use steel wool. This may be because it was really cheap.
I was going to get some 3M electrical at WM, but all they had was Duck brand. I used it and it started coming apart on the stone REALLY quickly. Would 3M be better, or do I need to be using a different type of tape?


Thanks

Back to the original question.

Looking duller (less shiny) on the bevel is not a reflection (sorry) of sharpness. Did you shave with it?

Good quality tape definitely makes a difference so I do recommend that you make the effort to find better tape. 3M is all that I use. In my area, they are about $3.50 per roll in bins very near $1 rolls but I have never been tempted after trying it once.