Thread: Mid-range tips

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Tip: Don't get obsessive in the middle you can end up taking a step backwards

This is a very good one. I found that, even though the middle matters, as long as you have a good bevel, mostly any rudimentary form of a progression (be it diluting slurry or whatever else) before finishing will get you a decent shaving edge.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

One of the reasons I abandoned my water stones, and my coticules/bbw is because I couldn't nail the mid range sharpening.

One tip I have that helped me tremendously on coticules (and I can only assume it works in a similar way with other hones that require honing on slurry):

Add a little water often rather than a lot of water only a few times. Adding lots of water a few times might work with some fast hones, but in general gradual dilution is the path of less frustration. I speak from lots of experience.

Oh, and watch how your water/slurry behaves along the edge (i.e. undercutting). And remember that grind plays a factor in that as well: the hollower the grind, the further up the blade the water/slurry reaches (that is, if you don't drown your stone while you hone, then it will most likely cover the entire blade). A few times after kind of figuring how to read undercutting water/slurry, I tried to get the quarter hollow blade to the point where the water/slurry would almost reach the spine - as it does on full hollows - needless to say I failed to do this and got extremely frustrated a few times.

At one point I though 'Screw this, it'll just have to be good enough.' Lo and behold, it was as sharp as my full hollow. Wishful thinking, for once, saved me from more frustration.

Originally Posted by mainaman

My tip for you is " Do exactly the same as you did on the bevel setter but with less lap counts"

What stones have you used in the middle range so fat?

BBW, Coticule with slurry, Waterstones, DMT EE, Hard Arkansas.. Failed on each many times.

Originally Posted by Birnando

Another little tidbit that seems to matter in the midrange is to really focus on pressure.
As Stefan says, do the same as when bevel-setting, but my addition is to ease up a bit on the pressure.
It's not about removing large amounts of steel anymore, just removing striations from the previous grit.

Of course Bjoernar is correct, the pressure should be decreasing as the grit of the stones used is increasing.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

BBW, Coticule with slurry, Waterstones, DMT EE, Hard Arkansas.. Failed on each many times.

How well is your bevel set is the question then?

Originally Posted by mainaman

How well is your bevel set is the question then?

It has always been well set. That was not the problem.

So if we are understanding correctly you a bevel setting with a 1K stone and then going directly to Barber Hones, is that correct?
Anything can be done with determination, and you Sir are the epitome of determination if you are using this method.
Reason 1K to Barber Hone is a HUGE jump in grit levels. If you are getting go shave Kudos to you.

The TPT. Yes you go along lengthwise down the blade lightly (licking your thumb is ok for added feel). Sliding off Gently at about a 45` angle you can really feel the grab(stickiness) if the blade. I have little micro slices in my thumb where I have done mine.
The true proof is in your shave which you stated is great. Congratulations.

The point that everyone will bring up..... The Huge jump from 1K to Barber Hone (12Kish).
Yet you are making it work. My thesis is that you are doing 100s of strokes on the barber hones.
Is this a true assessment?

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

It has always been well set. That was not the problem.

OK. If that statement is true, then this statement

slurry, Waterstones, DMT EE, Hard Arkansas.. Failed on each many times.

Does not sound right. I am assuming of course that you are making sure the pressure is correct.

About pressure:

In general when you go from bevel set to the next stone, for example 1k to 3k, of the progression you are looking at may be 50% reduction in pressure (you have to experiment to figure out how much exactly for your way of honing and the hones you have). When you are going from 3k to 5k you are looking at another 50% or so decrease in pressure, and if you are jumping from 3k to 8k you are going to have to start with more pressure then decrease to finish the edge before moving to your finisher. On the 8k you can also keep the pressure low but spend more time to erase the 3k stria. My numbers are not set in stone at all, but should give you some idea what to aim for and then adjust from there.

Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

So if we are understanding correctly you a bevel setting with a 1K stone and then going directly to Barber Hones, is that correct?
Anything can be done with determination, and you Sir are the epitome of determination if you are using this method.
Reason 1K to Barber Hone is a HUGE jump in grit levels. If you are getting go shave Kudos to you.

The TPT. Yes you go along lengthwise down the blade lightly (licking your thumb is ok for added feel). Sliding off Gently at about a 45` angle you can really feel the grab(stickiness) if the blade. I have little micro slices in my thumb where I have done mine.
The true proof is in your shave which you stated is great. Congratulations.

The point that everyone will bring up..... The Huge jump from 1K to Barber Hone (12Kish).
Yet you are making it work. My thesis is that you are doing 100s of strokes on the barber hones.
Is this a true assessment?

Yes I am using a king 1k, then directly you to a barber hone (Pike Koenig) and then to a double sided frictionite 00. I did about 50 x strokes on the pike and then 50 on the rough side of the frictionite and 20 on the fine side. It really doesn't take so long and this is all without making a double bevel.

This has been the only method I have excelled at. Does that make me weird?

Maybe being double sided is key to success with only a barber hone?

Originally Posted by mainaman

OK. If that statement is true, then this statement



Does not sound right. I am assuming of course that you are making sure the pressure is correct.

About pressure:

In general when you go from bevel set to the next stone, for example 1k to 3k, of the progression you are looking at may be 50% reduction in pressure (you have to experiment to figure out how much exactly for your way of honing and the hones you have). When you are going from 3k to 5k you are looking at another 50% or so decrease in pressure, and if you are jumping from 3k to 8k you are going to have to start with more pressure then decrease to finish the edge before moving to your finisher. On the 8k you can also keep the pressure low but spend more time to erase the 3k stria. My numbers are not set in stone at all, but should give you some idea what to aim for and then adjust from there.

That may be why I was having trouble.... Pressure... And getting too caught up with checking if the Stria are gone from the previous grit. Getting caught up in obsessive loupe checking.

I abandoned all of that, and now check the edge when done honing via a loupe and relying heavily on the tpt instead of all the visual checking. ( minus naked eye checking, I still to that.)

Maybe I have learned to control my pressure a lot better?

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Yes I am using a king 1k, then directly you to a barber hone (Pike Koenig) and then to a double sided frictionite 00. I did about 50 x strokes on the pike and then 50 on the rough side of the frictionite and 20 on the fine side. It really doesn't take so long and this is all without making a double bevel.

This has been the only method I have excelled at. Does that make me weird?

Maybe being double sided is key to success with only a barber hone?

Its just different. It would be like shifting from 1st gear into 5th gear and making it drive without stalling the motor. Good for you.
Down the road if you want to try the other gears,(midrange hones) the hand pressure suggestion will make a world of difference.
You overcame an obstacle on your own. Barber hones were only designed to maintain an edge. But the lore of the Frictionite 00 you have proved.

You have invented a system that works for you. Its ok to be different as long as you reach the same destination. We might want to not refer to your order of operation as mid-range hones.
The number of strokes you are using is the same as most others are doing , only difference is they are using different grit hones.

I was getting great shaves until I went to a meet. It filled in missing pieces that a forum just cant fill. I finished the meet able to reproduce exceptional shaves and show others what I had been taught.It is Ok to meet other wet shavers, the more you can find in one spot the better.