Thread: Just when you think it's over..

[QUOTE=Pithor;1559167]
Still, these are perfectly smooth edges, very keen and easy on the skin. But "melting off" stubble would be hyperbolic.
[QUOTE]

I mentioned this to you, Pithor, but I found the edges off two razors I bought from Cedric 'melting'.

I may have achieved them a few times myself at some time in the past - not sure who but just remember that feeling on a few of my razors, and in part it's behind my return to cotis.

Originally Posted by Pithor

I would put money on it that most people who think most coticules can provide a finished edge will agree with you that not all are made equal. There are definitely differences between coticules, also within the same vein.

Note that I said 'most coticules' because there definitely are coticules that are not suitable for razor honing; I have one. It is unusable for razors because it has hard inclusions that will damage the fine edge on razors. So far that is the only type of coticule that I've found that is unusable on razors, but for instance there are those that are dead slow on slurry, which can be tedious at the early bevel stage - they are not very common, though. And I know of at least one person who likes a nice and slow stone.

I never had a coticule edge that melted my stubble off. Every edge I have had off a coticule, even my most successful ones, provide the slight sensation of grabbing the stubble, more or less - if I go real slow and pay acute attention to how it saves. Still, these are perfectly smooth edges, very keen and easy on the skin. But "melting off" stubble would be hyperbolic.

It took me a while to find a coticule I could consistently get good edges on. But this was due to me both learning how to use coticules, reading feedback and making it difficult for myself by starting honing before I could shave properly. I got some great edges off all my coticules, including my first one, I was just not very consistent in doing so. The thing is, a specific coticule is 100% consistent. It does not change or vary, it is the user who does. So if you get a great edge off a specific coticule, then you as a user are able to get a great edge on that coticule; what you need to learn is how to get consistently good edges off one. And that simply takes time.

My first coticule was the most difficult coticule I have ever encountered. Not because it was a challenging stone per se, but because it was my first. I got frustrated so many times: I had trouble figuring out the proper slurry density; I worried about losing slurry along the edges of the stone; how much pressure to use and when; when/how to use tape, etc. Again, the problem was consistency, as I did get great edges early on (mainly through unicot - the secondary bevel method). They were just few and far between.

Normally I don't think vein matters that much, but in this case it's relevant. It took me a few months to figure it out on a general level, so you could think there was some sort of issue with the stone. There was not. It was a La Veinnette, one of the most renowned veins, historically as well as nowadays; universally well liked and on the whole quite consistent as a layer, one that is said to be among the easiest to learn on. It was roughly 10x5x2.5 cm, not huge, but more than enough. It moved to Norway last year I think, where its owner is most satisfied with it. I have come to prefer thinner stones as I find them easier to balance and otherwise manipulate in my hand.

I really feel the individual perspective is much more of a decisive factor in 'finding the One coticule' than the actual coticules tried. Quite like razors, really.

Some interesting points Pithor, it's always a pleasure to get your take on coticule related issues. As someone who I know is a respected coticule user.

I do think personal feelings and preferences have more to do with finding the one than just its properties as a hone. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Can we see a picture of your favourite coticule?

It may be too early to ask, but did you feel like the hybrid side came off keener than your other coti edges?

Congrats on the stone BTW. Sounds like it's a good one.

It would be a little biased to say because all my edges thus far have ended on the hybrid side. I can't resist its beauty. It's getting a nice polish on the stone too from use. Almost like a burnished ark, but not quite there. I also don't have a slurry stone so I haven't messed around with slurry yet. It's one hard coticule!

Yeah they're crazy hard. You can dilute with any coti slurry stone on the hybrid side. Gary was the one that discovered this (I think) and it works very well.

Oh...I remember now...you said you don't have any slurry stones. I thought you meant you didn't have a LL slurry stone. Scratch that. Lol

No slurry stone whatsoever friend. I also don't want to do any heavy slurry work on this bad boy. I would need a small Coti 100/40 to do my heavy slurry work.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

For those of you that did shell out for a les lat, would I finish on the coti then switch to hybrid for the final strokes?

I had one but swapped it for a stag Livi. Anyway, I tried that bevel setting to finish with the coticule a time or two or three, but gave that up and do the progression with synthetics before finishing. Not that it didn't work, but I have better things to do with my time and synthetic bevel setting is quicker.

When I had the les lat I did use the hybrid side as a final finisher.

The guy who first taught me to hone used to do 30 strokes on whatever finisher. I sort of took that as the default for a long time. Since then I've gotten away from a set number, as if there is a formula, but go by what I feel like the edge needs ........ IOW more, or less.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I had one but swapped it for a stag Livi. Anyway, I tried that bevel setting to finish with the coticule a time or two or three, but gave that up and do the progression with synthetics before finishing. Not that it didn't work, but I have better things to do with my time and synthetic bevel setting is quicker.

When I had the les lat I did use the hybrid side as a final finisher.

The guy who first taught me to hone used to do 30 strokes on whatever finisher. I sort of took that as the default for a long time. Since then I've gotten away from a set number, as if there is a formula, but go by what I feel like the edge needs ........ IOW more, or less.

Great insight Jimmy and a happy belated.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

No slurry stone whatsoever friend. I also don't want to do any heavy slurry work on this bad boy. I would need a small Coti 100/40 to do my heavy slurry work.

Even with regular, heavy slurrying, there is no way you will significantly wear the stone. I use thick slurry on all of mine, except the little La Petite Blanche because it really doesn't need it - meaning I use a less thick slurry than on the others.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Some interesting points Pithor, it's always a pleasure to get your take on coticule related issues. As someone who I know is a respected coticule user.

I do think personal feelings and preferences have more to do with finding the one than just its properties as a hone. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Can we see a picture of your favourite coticule?

These are all three of them together:


L to R: (1)Les Latneuses "hybrid" (2)Old, yellow side (3)La Petite Blanche, "pocket hone", yellow side


L to R: (1)Les Latneuses cream (2)Old, "blue" side (3)La Petite Blanche, "pocket hone", yellow side (I forgot to turn it over, but the blue side is really just...well, blue)

The one I have used the most thus far is the one on the left, the creamy side (You'll notice it looks dirty; that's because I never bother to clean my hones before or after honing. I slurry, I hone, I rinse, I'm done). It is the fastest all-rounder of the lot, although the hybrid side and the pocket hone are no slouches either. It is very straightforward and can be used for minor corrections and catching up at the watery end of the spectrum. Lately I've been mostly using the old one, though, and it is every bit as nice as the other ones. It is a pleasure to use, somewhat on the slow side on both slurry and water.

I have sporadically used the "blue" side on the old one, which is the most interesting of the lot. It has a tiny bit of yellow protruding and the slurry is almost white, with the most minimal pink hue. The transition from yellow to blue is very gradual, so if anything, that would be the real hybrid of the bunch. It has two dents, but I lapped it a bit and smoothed the edges on those dents, so they don't interfere with honing. I will need to give that side some more attention.

So my favourite? Hard to say. I like them all, but I tend to favour the two "larger" ones. That being said, the pocket hone is very capable in its own right, and a challenge due to its size and the fact that it auto-slurries ever so slightly.

If I had to pick a favourite at this point in time, I would go for the old one. It's a bit darker yellow (honey mustard), so it's a bit easier to see changes in slurry consistency than on the others. I really enjoy its feedback and feel as well. Aesthetically, it's very tough competition.

That being said, if you would have asked me two months ago, I probably would have said the creamy Les Latneuses side. If you ask me again in two weeks, I probably cannot answer any more sensibly. I like them all.

Funny thing, by the way: the pocket hone is by far the thickest, measuring in at a bit over 2 cm. The other two are a bit over 1 cm thick. I used to have a thicker hone, 2.5 cm, and I noticed I prefer thinner hones. Lighter, easier to manipulate in hand and more direct feedback.