Thread: Bevel issue? Or what?

Originally Posted by jumissa

Do More on 8k to smoothen it further. Just my 2c though :-)

How much would you suggest? And more circles? Or should I do 20 circles and a number of regular and x strokes?

Originally Posted by freddi

This is what I was thinking the issue was. The wife is going out tonight so I will spend some time in my cave that most call the basement trying to fix this. In the past I have tried just straight push and pull stroke on the 4/8k and have done circles. Are there any suggestions to which would work better?
The last time I used circles and got pretty good results. I am planning on doing that unless there is a better way. Here is what I was planning on doing:
- 20 circles per side with pressure on 4k
- 20 circles per side with little to no pressure on 4k
- 20 circles per side with no pressure on 8k
- 6 x strokes on 8k
- Finish with a good stropping (no CrOx, My strop is just 2 sided leather- suede and smooth)

In Red is what I find that seems off

What do you mean Straight strokes ???

Circles are for Bevel setting they're rather aggressive and leave odd stria for Push Cutting which is what a SR does,, they need to come out..

20 circles per side with pressure on 4k
20 X strokes per side with lessening pressure on 4k
20 X per side with no pressure on 8k
10 Absolutely perfect X strokes as the 8k goes from wet to damp as slow and perfect as possible


Keeping in mind that the pressure recommendations are still making sure that the edge is in contact with the hone at all times ...
The water ripple needs to always either be at the front of the edge or the edge in undercutting the ripple

Originally Posted by freddi

This is what I was thinking the issue was.

If the inclusive angle on a razor is in the 15 - 20 degree range then a bias towards one side will require only a very slight adjustment in the angle you hold your razor at to compensate. In reality you get far more variance in shaving angle between two different razors than either side of the same one. Once you have more experience you will not even have to think about the angle - it becomes almost intuitive as you hold the razor against your face.

No matter how much you play on your hones, you will not achieve that experience any sooner.

So a lot going on.
Firstly, what kind of razor is it?
How many laps are you stropping?
Are your stones lapped and beveled?
Are you setting the bevel on the 4K?
What method are you using to determine the bevel is fully set?
What are you using for magnification?

Formulaic honing almost never works, you have to do what the edge needs. Get some good magnification and look at the edge and bevel. If you see chipping, those chips need to be removed by fully setting the bevel and removing all the cross grain stria, then remove all the 4k stria with the 8k, however many laps as it takes. Stropping on “razor quality”, Chrome Oxide will polish the bevel and edge for comfort and add bit of keenness.

Circles work well for rapid metal removal, because of the alternating cross direction. Looking at the stria you will see random direction from circles, which can cause chipping at the edge. Straight laps will give you a straighter edge, which is the goal of honing. Make sure you are honing all the way to the edge, reading the first three posts in the honing forum are packed with honing information.

Changing hands while honing, adds more variables to the process.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

So a lot going on.
Firstly, what kind of razor is it?
How many laps are you stropping?
Are your stones lapped and beveled?
Are you setting the bevel on the 4K?
What method are you using to determine the bevel is fully set?
What are you using for magnification?

The razor is an "Imperial" Razor. I got it on Etsy.ca from a seller in the UK. Doubt its a legitimate Imperial blade, but it is a carbon steel, that I know.
I am after honing I have stropped 25 laps on suede and 50 laps on smooth leather. Before shaving I am doing 10 laps on suede and approximately 50 on smooth (I don't actually count the laps before a shave, but it would be close to 50)
Lapped stones
I am setting on the 4k
I have been testing on my forearm to check
I have no magnification, just the naked eye.

Thanks for all the help here guys!

ALL FIXED UP! Thanks again for everyone's suggestions here.

Last night I spent some time hitting the stone and came out with a great edge! I took a closer look at my blade last night and somehow I had 2 bevels on it. And I could see that without any loupe or anything. So I knew there was an issue there. So I did a combination of everyone's suggestions and it all worked. I can sure say the shave this morning was much better! And EVEN!

Here is what I ended up doing:

Started with giving the stone a good lapping. That made quite a difference right away.

Like I said I had two different bevels on the blade, so I spent a good time doing circles on the 4k

Approximately 50 circles per side on the 4k with pressure
20 circles per side with light pressure
40 x strokes on 8k no pressure
10 very slow and steady x strokes on the 8k

It was definitely better after this. But I thought it could still be a bit sharper. So I followed this with a pyramid:
10/10, 8/8, 5/5, 3/5, 1/5
Then finished off with about 10 minutes of just x strokes no pressure on the 8k (this got that edge really nice).

Finish with a good stropping, 40 on the suede and 100 on the smooth leather. Shave this morning was a delight. Close and comfortable!

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help here! It all paid off!

Told ya :-D jk. Grats for a New honer :-)

Nothing more satisfying than getting your first comfortably keen edge.

One more thing. For all the time you spent on the 8k getting it "there", it seems to me that you should have spent just a little more time on the 4k before moving on. I like to test my edge after each progression. I have developed my own bench marks for each one and what my edge should look and cut like. I use arm hair cutting at skin level for a 4k. Develop your own sharpness tests as everyone's hair or thumb pad or nail is different. Also when your about done on a given hone in your progression try using gssixgun's suggestion of finishing strokes until the hone is damp. You will get the most out of the Norton with that method, and therefore spend less time on the next hone in your progression.

Originally Posted by jfk742

Also when your about done on a given hone in your progression try using gssixgun's suggestion of finishing strokes until the hone is damp. You will get the most out of the Norton with that method, and therefore spend less time on the next hone in your progression.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to remember that at the next hone session. Hopefully not for a month or two. I am looking into some CrOx and a linen strop for the occasional refresh to get more life between hones. I definitely did those finishing strokes on the 8k side. Next time I will try it on the 4k as well.

Hmmm, I wonder how much pressure pressure is....