Thread: Adventures in barber's hone-land

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

I have an odd thought on the tugging issue. I have also noticed that I can get tugging with a freshly honed blade but never thought of a few swipes on a barber's hone to improve the edge. One morning I stopped and mentally went over basic shaving techniques and then adjusted the relationship of the razor to the horizontal plane. I had been shaving with the edge not parallel to the floor. With that adjustment the tugging went away. Not all shaving problems are with the razor, per se. Angles, lather and beard growth directions are more in play than we think because we take them for granted. Reviewing the basics on occasion can save time, frustration and steel.

When I first started shaving I tried to put the blade literally horizontal to the ground. Needless to say it hurt.

Now I tend to keep the blade almost vertical to the ground, sometimes keeping it nearly flat against my face. That seems to help when they are a little dull but I end up doing more passes that way.

I doubt that is good technique but I do it.

You are definitely right though: I will review shaving technique to make sure that I am following best practices.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yea, probably the bevel was not set, common after bread-knifing, especially with a stone of unknown grit or quality.

Look at the edge, straight down. If you see any shiny spots re set the bevel, depending on what you see, but you will probably need to re set on the 4k Norton. Stay on the 4k until you are absolutely sure the bevel is completely set.

Here is a good thread with great bevel photos on what to look for and what a fully set bevel looks like.

My Second try at Honing.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out and report back. Just got notification that my hone is in my mailbox.

@Euclid440: Just finished reading that link.

I'll take a look at my razor's bevel this evening and report back. I'll also grab some pics of it. I don't have a way to give great zoomed in detail but I'll put what I can here.

I can say that my bevel is shiny like the bevel towards the end of the honing process in that thread you linked; when I started I could see stria but the Apart polished them right out.

I know that doesn't necessarily mean that the bevel is correct.

My jeweler's loupe will probably be quite revealing as well: that's a few days behind.

The setting of the bevel and the polishing of the bevel are different, and you can have one without the other. To set the bevel, the object is to get both planes of the blade to meet in a perfect apex along it's entire edge. It is that apex that does the cutting. When we begin to polish the bevel once it has been set, we cannot see the changes to the apex, only on the bevel. Just to clarify, the apex is the very point of the V, and the bevel is the sides of the V. We watch the bevel polish and the stria diminish and disappear and those same stria are disappearing from the apex at the same time, making the edge sharper. So if your V looks like a U but the sides are perfectly polished it will not cut well. If it is a U then the bevel is not set. The U will show shiny parts or lines or sparkle when looking directly down at it with a good light source and a loupe.

As Shaun said two different things, when you look down on the edge you are looking for the meeting of the bevels, if you see reflections, the bevels are not meeting. If they are you can’t see it, you only see a grey fuzzy line.

You will easily see an un-set bevel with the naked eye and a strong light. Magnification makes it a little easier to see micro-chips though.

When you look from the side on the bevel you are looking at the edge for chips, or on the bevel for an even stria pattern, that goes all the way to the edge. If it does not reach the edge, you can’t have a set bevel, the two bevels meeting at an edge.

The finer the stria on the bevel, the straighter the edge, but only if you are honing all the way to the edge and actually have a full, complete edge, a fully set bevel.

Got my 4/8 hone yesterday! I caressed it but haven't used it for much yet. Waiting on your suggestions here!

Here are some pics of my razor: a Worcester Razor Co that has been ground down considerably (when purchased it had a large chip in it).

Please forgive my incredibly dirty fingers: I had just finished putting a V8 engine back together and...well, grease gets everywhere.

I looked down the edge with a flashlight and I really couldn't see any reflection but maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Also I did see on the side what may be a second bevel on the 3rd to last picture. Maybe I need to assume that the bevel is not set?

I'm thinking I should just back up to the 4k and do Lynn's pyramid on it. If that doesn't work then I definitely need to set the bevel.

A couple of quick comments. You will need to lap your Norton 4/8. Your razor has a very high heel. It will get in your way and mess up your honing. It really should get reshaped. Do you have a DMT?

Definitely looks like 2 bevels. Paint the edge with a sharpie and see where your hones are making contact. If there's sharpie left near the edge your bevel needs to be set. Also looks like a little more pressure on the toe. Try to get the bevel even across the length of the blade.

Originally Posted by RezDog

A couple of quick comments. You will need to lap your Norton 4/8. Your razor has a very high heel. It will get in your way and mess up your honing. It really should get reshaped. Do you have a DMT?

I don't have a DMT but I have seen DMTs at hardware stores: would cheap ones like this work?

3 Piece 2'' x 6'' Diamond Hone Blocks

I do have lower grit stones as well; not high quality, mind you.

Could you elaborate on 'high heel?' Do you mean that I am not honing consistently across the blade, meaning the toe is honed down further than the heel, like Marshal said below? I have had that problem in the past and am trying to rectify it.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Definitely looks like 2 bevels. Paint the edge with a sharpie and see where your hones are making contact. If there's sharpie left near the edge your bevel needs to be set. Also looks like a little more pressure on the toe. Try to get the bevel even across the length of the blade.

I'll try the sharpie trick this weekend. Would you suggest moving back to the 4k until I've correctly set the bevel and removed the second bevel? Or do I need to go down further than that?

Thank you both for your input.

The DMT is for flattening and lapping your new hone. The 4k/8k comes with a fairly rough surface and needs to be prepped before it's ready to hone. You probably want something bigger than the hardware store hones.

If your bevel doesn't meet at the edge, I would suggest dropping back until it does, then working back up. Something around the 1k mark should suffice if you've got one on hand. If not, the 4k Norton should work.

Originally Posted by Marshal

The DMT is for flattening and lapping your new hone. The 4k/8k comes with a fairly rough surface and needs to be prepped before it's ready to hone. You probably want something bigger than the hardware store hones.

If your bevel doesn't meet at the edge, I would suggest dropping back until it does, then working back up. Something around the 1k mark should suffice if you've got one on hand. If not, the 4k Norton should work.

Well, I have this crappy "3k" but I don't know if I really trust it. I'd prefer to use the Norton.

How many passes would be reasonable before the bevel will be set? 200? 100?