Thread: Adventures in barber's hone-land

Originally Posted by Marshal

I would consider doing fewer passes between checks. Barber's hones are fine, true. And 1k to a B. Hone is a big jump. But once you hit that sweet spot it won't take much to go beyond what the blade needs.

Besides, 200 strokes on a B. Hone isn't all that bad. I did nearly 600 across 3 Welsh Slates to polish one up after bevel set. Yes, the intermediate grits really help tone that down. If you had the 4/8k on hand and lapped properly you'd have been done already.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll cut that in half and see where it takes me? (do 25?)

600 strokes?????? Holy cow!

Originally Posted by RezDog

If you were to go from a 1K to another finish level hone in one jump, and no slurry to help, say a Naniwa 12K I would expect the number of strokes required would be in the hundreds too, and the 12K would be twice as long. I do not think that that is an outrageous amour considering the jump. You will find it much easier once you get some steps in the middle.

Good to know I'm not off base. I'm super excited to see the new stone for sure.

Take a look at this thread, 12K Chip Removal/Bevel Setting.

Breadknife, removed a chip and 80 circles and 206 laps, to a fully set bevel and shaving, on a 12K Super Stone.

So what you are attempting is very doable in probably, under 100 laps. I would do some circles to remove the heavy 1k stria, then X laps to lay down an even stria pattern.

I'll have to read that later when I'm not on my cell phone. Looks like quite the interesting read. Random though though, your 12k SS is 8x3 correct? A significant bit larger than most B hones, I would think the same feat would take a little more on the B hone just due to it's smaller surface area. Or is that an incorrect assumption ?

Originally Posted by apamburn

600 strokes?????? Holy cow!

Bear in mind this is across 3 different naturals - they cut slower than synthetics across the board. And I was really taking my time to make sure that everything was spot on.

25 is an ok start. Remember with a fast cutter like a B. hone, the closer you get the fewer strokes you want to do. Matter of fact in that thread Euclid linked I would be tempted to try the Alex Gilmore/Ax sharpening method he mentions. But considering you'd already done a multitude of strokes on your B. hone maybe do 10/5/3/2/1 instead of starting at 20 and working down. Sounds like you should be fairly close.

Shaved again last night.

All of my strokes have been strictly x-strokes: no circular honing whatsoever.

I recently started trying circular honing with my knives to great effect; I'll do that to my razors in the future, most likely, in addition to x strokes.

I did 25 x strokes (didn't see Marshal's suggestion in time) on the barber's hone followed by my normal 40 passes on my leather strop.

No improvement over the weekend's shave.

I decided to take the razor to my linen strop impregnated with jeweler's rouge and did 40 passes on that.

I got a smoother shave but still not there.

Next time, maybe 5 - 10 passes on Barber's hone, then a bunch of passes on my linen strop - maybe 50? Followed by my leather strop - maybe 50 more?

I'm hoping that will do the trick.

Thoughts?

I don't really do circles passed bevel set, but I also don't do large jumps like that. You're probably passed the point those would be necessary since you've already done a few hundred passes on the B. Hone. I would say take the hone into the bathroom with you next time you shave. Do 5 to 10 swipes and shave a patch right off the stone. Repeat until it stops improving.

I actually did that myself yesterday. I felt a little tug with my dovo - not uncomfortable, just obviously a touch dull. So I pulled out the Swaty, did 5 laps, tried a patch. Better, but could improve so I did 5 more - bingo. Didn't even bother stropping, just finished the shave.

The fact that I had to touch it up so soon tells me my stropping probably needs work. I've maybe gotten 5 shaves off that edge.

Just to give a sense of scale, I honed up a razor that had a cottage cheese edge last night. It was a basic 5/8 full hollow that had corrosion/pitting that extended halfway up the depth of the bevel. I honed it on a progression of Choseras: 400, 600, 800, 1k, 2k and then finished with SIX strokes on an Apart barber hone. I could have done all the work on the 1k, but this was a seriously trashed edge so I wanted to get it done quickly. The entire process took less than 10 minutes.

The shave was just fine this morning. I admit that I could have made it better with some of my other toys, but the finish off of the Apart made for a perfectly good shave. If I wanted to, I could continue to shave with just that razor maintained with just that single barber hone for the rest of my life. If you want it simple, a barber hone can keep it simple.

Originally Posted by Marshal

I don't really do circles passed bevel set, but I also don't do large jumps like that. You're probably passed the point those would be necessary since you've already done a few hundred passes on the B. Hone. I would say take the hone into the bathroom with you next time you shave. Do 5 to 10 swipes and shave a patch right off the stone. Repeat until it stops improving.

I actually did that myself yesterday. I felt a little tug with my dovo - not uncomfortable, just obviously a touch dull. So I pulled out the Swaty, did 5 laps, tried a patch. Better, but could improve so I did 5 more - bingo. Didn't even bother stropping, just finished the shave.

The fact that I had to touch it up so soon tells me my stropping probably needs work. I've maybe gotten 5 shaves off that edge.

Shaved last night. As you suggested I had my Apart right next to me, lathered up, and started shaving. I started on my left sideburn and the razor was pulling as before.

I stopped about 1/3 of the way down the sideburn, lathered up my Apart, and did 5 passes on it.

Back to my face: a small improvement and I finished off the rest of my sideburn.

I stopped and did 5 more on the Apart.

Back to my face: my cheek this time. No improvement.

I considered doing more on the Apart but instead went to linen with Jeweler's Rouge: 25 passes.

Back to my face again: small improvement but I was out of time and I finished up.

Maybe I just never got my bevel set so the razor isn't reaching maximum sharpness? Or perhaps my honing technique sucks (I don't think so but...)? Or perhaps I should take it to my linen / leather a bunch of times?

My 4/8 should be here today so maybe I just got back to 8k before pushing back up to the Apart?

Originally Posted by Utopian

Just to give a sense of scale, I honed up a razor that had a cottage cheese edge last night. It was a basic 5/8 full hollow that had corrosion/pitting that extended halfway up the depth of the bevel. I honed it on a progression of Choseras: 400, 600, 800, 1k, 2k and then finished with SIX strokes on an Apart barber hone. I could have done all the work on the 1k, but this was a seriously trashed edge so I wanted to get it done quickly. The entire process took less than 10 minutes.

The shave was just fine this morning. I admit that I could have made it better with some of my other toys, but the finish off of the Apart made for a perfectly good shave. If I wanted to, I could continue to shave with just that razor maintained with just that single barber hone for the rest of my life. If you want it simple, a barber hone can keep it simple.

That surely makes me think that it's a technique / bevel setting issue I have. :/

I have an odd thought on the tugging issue. I have also noticed that I can get tugging with a freshly honed blade but never thought of a few swipes on a barber's hone to improve the edge. One morning I stopped and mentally went over basic shaving techniques and then adjusted the relationship of the razor to the horizontal plane. I had been shaving with the edge not parallel to the floor. With that adjustment the tugging went away. Not all shaving problems are with the razor, per se. Angles, lather and beard growth directions are more in play than we think because we take them for granted. Reviewing the basics on occasion can save time, frustration and steel.

Yea, probably the bevel was not set, common after bread-knifing, especially with a stone of unknown grit or quality.

Look at the edge, straight down. If you see any shiny spots re set the bevel, depending on what you see, but you will probably need to re set on the 4k Norton. Stay on the 4k until you are absolutely sure the bevel is completely set.

Here is a good thread with great bevel photos on what to look for and what a fully set bevel looks like.

My Second try at Honing.