Ok, this thread again. Honing wedges.(Sorry!)

[nickyspaghetti]

I am just wondering if anybody could advise me in honing wedges, as I failed to get a wedge sharp in the past, and I have 3 more coming to me that I want to be successful with. Do you need to just do more passes on the stone, or do you need to look for different kinds of signs when honing. I had a no name sheffield wedge, with 'The Princes Own' It was very old with tatty bone handles but the steel was in good condition. It got to a point of sharpness that I just couldn't improve on, and it wasn't sharp enough to shave. The bevel was quite wide and had quite a lot of wear, could this be the culprit?(the edge was still nice and straight) I guess it needed regrinding, but is there a point when a razor MUST have a regrind, or is it just a cosmetic thing?
Any ideas would be appreciated
Thanks

[JoshEarl]

Nick,

I've done a few wedges, and from my limited experience I think the key is getting a good bevel started. I'm in the minority on this, but I find that creating the bevel on a coarser hone is better because it allows you to use fewer strokes and concentrate on using steady, even pressure.

If I have a razor with chips or a bad bevel, I'll start out on a 600-grit DMT diamond hone. I don't consciously use pressure, although I'm not focusing on using a light touch, either. Just getting moderate, even pressure along the bevel. I also focus my attention on the 2 cm or so of the blade that's nearest the edge of the hone. (Sometimes the toe of the razor isn't even making contact for the full stroke.)

The coarser, fast-cutting hone means I don't get impatient and use too much pressure, which usually creates an uneven bevel for me. Focusing on the edge of the hone means I'm honing just a small part of the blade at one time.

I haven't had any issues with wedges since I adopted this approach, and I generally get an even bevel.

If you don't have a great bevel, you can hone forever on the finer hones without making much progress.

You might want to grab some 800 or 1000-grit sandpaper and try to reset the bevel with it, following my suggestions above.

One caution: Honemeister Randy Tuttle says that dropping below 1000-grit can cause stress on the edge that leads to microchipping later. I can't say I've seen this myself, but he's way more experienced than me.

Good luck,
Josh

P.S. Hone wear is just cosmetic, in my opinion, unless it somehow results in the razor hitting the stone at odd angles. Then it can keep the edge from honing up properly. When I say "good bevel" I mean one that goes all the way to the edge, not necessarily one that is even. Even is good, but not essential.

[nickyspaghetti]

Great thanks. Would you reccomend an x stroke because of the smiling blades too? I have 1500 paper and a norton so I'll be ready to attack them as soon as I get home. I might have another go at the old wedge first, just so I don't ruin the 3 nice ones, if the wear on it is just cosmetic and doesn't 'prevent' it from being sharp.

Thanks

[paul_lynch]

I have a seven day set of wedges that I have loaned to my son for his leatherworking class, which I got from ebay and haven't been touched since, apart from a basic polish so they look good - which will be just fine for his purposes, but not for shaving with.

I don't want to mess them up, but the edges are in what is best described as typical ebay condition - clean, but catch on my thumbnail; the chips are small ones, not visible to the unaided eye. I am pretty certain that I'l need to rework the bevels for all of these.

Would anyone care to give an estimate of typical number of strokes required to establish a bevel on these? I guess starting from a Norton 4k, but 1k sandpaper if that's what you use (or whatever). And yes, I know it will vary considerably in real life.

[JoshEarl]

Nick,

Definitely use an X stroke. Going straight across with smiling blades will give you an edge that's well honed in the middle but dull as dirt on the ends. (The ends won't get honed at all, probably.) Also, tape the spine with electrical tape if you're working on sandpaper. I actually leave the tape on until I go to the pasted strop.

Paul, I would tape the spine and do 30-50 light but firm strokes on 1K sandpaper, then test on your thumbnail. It might take 50-200 strokes, depending on the blade and your honing stroke.

Frequent testing is key, as this lets you know when you've gotten the chips and you're just wasting metal.

Good luck,
Josh

[paul_lynch]

Thanks, Josh, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I couldn't bear the thought of giving it too few strokes without taping the spine, and keeping on and on testing until it was good - and the spine had massive wear showing.

[gratewhitehuntr]

I kept count once just for shits and giggles while honing a wedge on 2000 grit 3M wet/dry glued to glass.
I had oiled the paper so it didn't clog.

The razor had a nick that was maybe a little less than half of the bevel.

I used 567 strokes before it would pass the thumbnail test.

YMMV.

I haven't had any problems with even really freaky looking uneven bevels as long as they go to the edge.

[JoshEarl]

I think 2000-grit is actually the same as Norton's 4K, but I could be wrong. The 1000-grit cuts a LOT faster.

Another thing to consider is that the paper does wear out. After about 100 strokes on 1K paper, I feel that the paper loses its effectiveness.

Some of the senior members frown on using a lot of strokes, but I think the key is learning to check your progress. If you do 500 strokes and the edge is still rough, then you need to do more strokes. It's important to not just keep honing blindly, though, because you'll just wear yourself and the razor out.

The number of strokes isn't that important because it's only part of the equation, along with pressure and the mechanics of your honing stroke.

Keep up the good work,
Josh

[gratewhitehuntr]

It wasn't the same sheet the whole time. Forgot to mention that.

The point was that the number of strokes isn't really important.

I doubt I will be wearing out a wedge if I haven't even removed half of the bevel.

I prefer the 2000 because one thing I discovered when I got a microscope was that there were marks remaining from coarse grit papers even when I thought I was supposed to be on the finish hone.

I went to a higher grit to keep from leaving microscopic plow furrows and micro chipping in the edge.
It didn't happen all the time but once or twice of 35 mins honing just to find out that you are roughly where you started is frustrating.
Now I stick to 2000 unless it's a HUGE chip like 3/16.

[mparker762]

The lowest I'll go nowadays is the 1k Shapton. I used to use sandpaper but like joshearl it always seemed to oval the bevel, and it wound up taking nearly as long on the norton to clean it up as it would have to have just gone to the norton in the first place. The 1k Shapton is extremely fast and will pull out a nick without needing circular strokes or any such games, and once the nick is out I can go straight up the shapton progression with no more than a handful of laps per grit.