Thread: Edge Picture at 100X after Chosera 1K Stone

Hello,

I am fairly new to straight razors I am looking for some help from anyone experienced at honing with the aid of a microscope. I am wondering if anyone can comment on the attached photo. I tried to set the bevel on my Ralf Aust razor using Lynn's method with 40 circles each side of the blade (with pressure) and then 25 X strokes on each side with pressure.

What I see in the compound microscope is a fairly "toothy" edge. This photo was taken with my iPhone through the compound microscope just after the chosera 1K stone. I don't know how much detail the photo will show, but I'll give it a try. I am not experience enough with the TPT to be able to interpret the result, but the razor did shave arm hair, although reluctantly.

When I progressed to the 5K, 8K, 12K, and 20K stones, the edge improved but still remained somewhat "toothy" at the edge. My shave with the razor was not very good. It was not necessarily harsh, but the razor was just not sharp enough.

When I compare my final edge to my other razors that were professionally honed, I see very smooth edges at 100X on the pro honed razors.

Is this "toothy" edge what I should be seeing at the chosera 1K stone level? Are these striations or microchips? Should I see a smooth edge at 1K or a toothy edge that smooths out as I progress through the hones?

There should not be any teeth/burrs after the 1k especially after the Chosera 1k

Since it is a quality razor and steel the answer to the burr lays in your hands, probably to many "Laps" or too much pressure doing those laps..

Watch the Water Ripple at the edge, apply just enough pressure to keep that wave either in front of or riding up onto the blade face.. No More then that for razor in good condition...


ps: Want to REALLY learn, then strop on only leather after the 1k and go shave, yes it really should shave at that level, then repeat after each level.. This will teach you quite a bit about what the hones actually do at each stage... This however takes more time then many want to invest

As stated by gssixgun pressure is not your friend. Whatever gains you get in speed establishing a bevel you lose trying to get all that stria knocked down later in your progression. When I first started out I also used too much pressure and honed with half strokes or japanese honing style and because of lack of experience only made my job more difficult. Excessive pressure does a lot of bad things if you have a thin razor like a full hollow you can seemingly hone forever and not get an edge because you are warping the blade and honing behind the edge. Also it can chip your blade and add deep stria like you have. Not good for beginner only creates more stuff to fix. I suggest revisiting the 1 K doing a quick jointing of the edge to knock back the saw tooth at the edge. This is done very gently on the hone a once back and forth breadknife like maneuver or drag it on the corner of your hone same thing. then rebuild your edge set your blade firmly without pushing down on the hone with a slight torque forward to the edge gently. Then just do X-Strokes carefully and watch the water as glen said riding the edge. Dont worry about how many strokes it takes dont count or any of that. Check with your optics how its coming along from time to time to see if your hitting out to the edge and along the whole bevel. keep going light until all that scuzz is gone check for bevel set and move on to the rest of your stones removing previous stria. No pressure just enough for good hone contact and then lighten up at finish. I think you will do better. My two cents hope it helps.

Looks about like a 1K edge to me, good job with the bevel set. It’s OK to make straight back and forth passes starting out. Ultimately your blade should lead heel first. The X stroke angle and helps smooth out imperfections.

Practice will help you develop the sense for pressure exerted on the blade. Keep doing the visual inspections at each interval and not only will you feel the differences, you will be able to see and interpret them as well,. Congratulations.
MIke

Welcome to SRP. I don't have the magnification to look that close. I found that the lower the magnification the better my honing looks ......

Since you are starting out with an appreciation for the benefits of magnification, this thread might be useful to show where edges are at various stages of the game.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...pics-200x.html

Many thanks to everyone for such great help!

I followed the suggestion of Razorfaust and performed a "breadknife" followed by 50 very light stroke on the Chosera 1K. Using "light strokes", all of the "toothy" appearance of the edge never returned after bread knifing.

Here is the result:



At this point, I am not sure how to interpret the TPT and the razor still does not shave arm hair very well. I do not see any reflections looking straight down on the bevel suggesting an incomplete bevel set, but I'm not sure when to move on to the 5K stone.

1. Should I keep on the 1K until the razor shaves arm hair easily?
2. Try the cherry tomato test?
3. Any other suggestions about what to look for in the microscope at 100X?

Thanks

If the entire edge and bevel looks like that along the entire length of both sides, then your bevel is set. The main thing to look for in the scope is a continuous surface on the bevel with NO change all the way to the very edge. The edge should appear merely as the disappearance of the bevel. There should be no reflection, distortion, or change in appearance in the bevel at the edge.

If you really want to test your razor, strop it and shave. That would be the best test for a beginner. Strop and shave after you think you have finished with each hone.

Originally Posted by Utopian

If the entire edge and bevel looks like that along the entire length of both sides, then your bevel is set. The main thing to look for in the scope is a continuous surface on the bevel with NO change all the way to the very edge. The edge should appear merely as the disappearance of the bevel. There should be no reflection, distortion, or change in appearance in the bevel at the edge.

If you really want to test your razor, strop it and shave. That would be the best test for a beginner. Strop and shave after you think you have finished with each hone.

Here is a quote from an email Randydance sent me 9 years ago ;

The purpose of the 1000 grit is to remove nicks and straighten/shape an edge. For that you use your eyes and the Thumb Nail Test (TNT), not the Thumb Pad Test (TPT). (see; Sharpness tests explained) The edge should be free of nicks and the bevel should go all the way to the edge. If you are using a hand held microscope then the bevel will appear as one color, if there are two bevels, old and new, then the light reflects off the bevel at different angles and appears as two colors. The scratch pattern should also be uniform for both the length and width of the bevel. When you have that then move on to the 4000, but not before.

(emphasis mine)

The entire email, + a bit more can be found here in the SRP library for anyone interested ;

Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Library

Look at the edge straight down. If you see a reflection as in the first photo, the bevel is not set. The second photo the bevel is partially set. Once the bevel is completely set it will not reflect any light, as in the last photo, the shiny dots are dust.

Looking at the edge from the side, you can see if you are honing to the edge, but not if the bevels are meeting, fully from heel to toe. You do want an even stria pattern from heel to toe and edge to back of the bevel.

With hollow ground razors if you use too much pressure you will lift the edge off the stone as the blade flexes.

Feel every sharp edge you can find with your thumb, eventually you will know what a sharp edge feels like. A TPT will not feel a chip though, visually looking at the edge, is the quickest, non-destructive, most complete test of a fully set bevel.

Here is a good video of the test

.

BTW, that is not bread-knifing, it is jointing, where you are just removing any ragged burr and straightening the edge slightly. Bread-knifing is grinding the edge straight on a low grit stone with pressure.

Looks much better and the stria seems to go out to the edge nicely. If you didn't see any shiny spots looking down at the razors edge, your job on the 1 k is most likely done. When you say it doesn't shave arm hair well, just for the hell of it do a quick stropping on linen and check if the arm hair cuts well after. It may clean up some of the crud left over from the stones if its still bad you may do a little more work on the 1k but I agree with the other guys that the bevel is most likely done. Move on to your next stone using the same regimen and look for the stria to refine check and keep going. When it comes to pressure I have found it helpful to shine a lamp on the razor in such a way as when you push down on the razor the reflection will reveal if your warping the blade or not. Keep in mind how much force it takes to effect the razor and you will understand the upper limit of honing pressure. As you progress through the grits keep your strokes light and careful this becomes more critical the sharper and finer the edge gets so slow down you will be rewarded in the end.

Enjoy and Good Luck!