Thread: Honing a Gold Dollar is hard!

See here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...one-print.html

I believe this thread discusses the same type of agate as one side of your hone.

I have a ZY that I would assume is close to a GD. I then bought a 3000/8000 stone that is orange/white and a 10K white stone, WieWei brand.
You can get a shaving edge off of the 8K, I bought the 10K but don't see that it is required to shave. The vinyl strop is only useful with abrasive. Mine came with .5m diamond paste. For me there was a sweet spot on how much to strop to get sharper before the edge went the other way.

By far the best piece of equipment that I bought was a 15X loupe. It gives you a lot of visual feedback on whether your bevel is set all the way to the edge, if you are pressing too hard on the 3K, and how much time on the 8K to polish out what the 3K left.

Originally Posted by Brent375HH

I have a ZY that I would assume is close to a GD. I then bought a 3000/8000 stone that is orange/white and a 10K white stone, WieWei brand.
You can get a shaving edge off of the 8K, I bought the 10K but don't see that it is required to shave. The vinyl strop is only useful with abrasive. Mine came with .5m diamond paste. For me there was a sweet spot on how much to strop to get sharper before the edge went the other way.

By far the best piece of equipment that I bought was a 15X loupe. It gives you a lot of visual feedback on whether your bevel is set all the way to the edge, if you are pressing too hard on the 3K, and how much time on the 8K to polish out what the 3K left.

I'm curious, how is the quality of the Weiwei hone? Ive seen them around, but the price tag and general lack of reviews turned me away from them.

I've been tempted to but like 4 of those ruby red and agate hones and glue the little SOBS together to make one of useful length and width. Mostly I'm interested in the agate as a finisher, but can't find one in a size I like.

Originally Posted by Marshal

I'm curious, how is the quality of the Weiwei hone? Ive seen them around, but the price tag and general lack of reviews turned me away from them.

I've been tempted to but like 4 of those ruby red and agate hones and glue the little SOBS together to make one of useful length and width. Mostly I'm interested in the agate as a finisher, but can't find one in a size I like.

I wish I could answer your question better, but I am only 6 weeks into honing and have no "Snob Rocks" to compare it to. I lapped them on 600 wet or dry (wet) on my granite island counter top. Both of my hones are 7" x 2.5". Both came off ebay and were $20 shipped each. I am a veteran DE shaver and can get my straight blades sharp enough for a close shave off them. I will NOT say that I think I can get an edge as sharp as a good DE blade, but sharp enough to get a good shave in 3 passes. It might be superfluous but I have been putting glycerin on the 8 & 10 hoping to get a finer finish. Are they really the grits that they claim? I don't know. The combo stone sure has a lot of bubbles pouring out at the point of gluing when first soaked, but has not come apart.

Sorry I don't have a Norton or Naniwa to compare them to. Sooner or later my curiosity will lead me to purchase them, and for no other reason than support this fine website if they don't turn out to produce a better edge.

Originally Posted by Brent375HH

I wish I could answer your question better, but I am only 6 weeks into honing and have no "Snob Rocks" to compare it to. I lapped them on 600 wet or dry (wet) on my granite island counter top. Both of my hones are 7" x 2.5". Both came off ebay and were $20 shipped each. I am a veteran DE shaver and can get my straight blades sharp enough for a close shave off them. I will NOT say that I think I can get an edge as sharp as a good DE blade, but sharp enough to get a good shave in 3 passes. It might be superfluous but I have been putting glycerin on the 8 & 10 hoping to get a finer finish. Are they really the grits that they claim? I don't know. The combo stone sure has a lot of bubbles pouring out at the point of gluing when first soaked, but has not come apart.

Sorry I don't have a Norton or Naniwa to compare them to. Sooner or later my curiosity will lead me to purchase them, and for no other reason than support this fine website if they don't turn out to produce a better edge.

Haha, "Snob Rocks." Amusing way to put it. I don't have any of those either, unless maybe my Norton 1K, 4K, and 8K hones count? All my other hones are naturals, and I don't think I've spent more than 30 to 35 bucks (including shipping) on any one of them.

Well, it seems to me between your hones and pastes you should* have the tools necessary to put as good an edge on your razors as a DE. This is assuming of course, that your hones are at/near the 8-10K level. And there is a purpose to vinyl without paste. Straightens the edge if it somehow forms a little wave and it abrades away any filings left over from the hone. It also has an effect on the edge, but you're not going to see it without a scanning electron microscope.

Here's a neat little resource that gets shared from time to time where the author has done just that:

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

If you haven't seen it, the site really helps you get an idea what's going on at the smallest level possible.

Nortons are a non contender in the UK/Europe Mr Marshal. Exchange rates make them overpriced. £85-£130! $120-$188! For the 4/8.

King are well priced. The 1000/6000 icebear can be had for under £40 from amazon. It's not a finishing stone and the 6K side is on the rougher end of the 6K spectrum. But if you have other stones to work from it then it'll work.

There is a rock I keep meaning to pick up for testing. It's a 2000/5000 grit stone from eden. I have no idea how well they perform but at £20 it might be a decent gamble.

Eden Quality Combi Waterstone grain 2000 / 5000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

It will bevel set on the 2K side, and give a mid grit polish on the 5K side. This 5K edge probably won't be a comfortable shave as the polish isn't that high. But it's £20 that represents 50% of a rotation on the cheap.

Add in a 8K naniwa superstone and you have a shave-able rotation.

Naniwa Specialty Stone, SP-480, grit: 8000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

And then the logical progression is to add a 12K superstone at a later date.


The problem you are currently facing is Slow Chinese stones of unknown grits, poor quality razor with possible grinding flaws, and a cheap strop.

The Chinese stones will always be a bug of contention, they may work very well. The trouble is naturals are generally slow, and you have a razor that may need serious tweaking to get right. You can hone for hours on those Chinese rocks and get no-where, or even worse go backwards due to getting frustrated.

The razor flaws can be pulled out with a lower grit faster stone. The razor will not look pretty afterwards, but should take an edge. Often the grinding needed will leave an uneven bevel, and pretty major spine flattening. It's a £10 razor, use it to play.

The strop is simply a money thing. I don't advise spending big money on a strop at all. It needs to be leather, in good condition, and have a decent hanging method that lets you keep it drum tight. If the cheap strop you have does all of that then spending £100 on a strop at this point is a waste. If it doesn't do that then there are cheap options.


There is a fantastic man over in Nottingham, called Garry Haywood. He runs a little barbers shop, and sells straight razor gear.

This is his webshop.

The Straight Razor Specialist - Razor Sharpening, Honing, Whetstones and Strops. Razor Sharpening UK, Razor Honing UK, Razor Sharpening Nottingham, Razor Honing Nottingham

He sells a shave ready gold dollar 66 for £20. He's already reground it, and put on a shaving edge, you also get a free second honing with him. It'll give you a benchmark for your own gold dollar in terms of sharpness. And it'll let you shave correctly, a blunt razor is dangerous as you use more force. Sharp means less force, and less force means you can't slip and fillet your face.

He also sells some really well priced decent strops when he has them in stock.



Straights don't need to be expensive. There are limits on how cheap you can go before the gear becomes problematic. Cheap razors are generally flawed, and they cause some frustration on the forums. People buy them expecting a razor, and what you actually get is something that looks like a razor but isn't quite finished. They can shave very well, and some people take great pride in getting one to shave superbly. To get them to that stage takes work, time, and some skill. Going this route is unfortunately very common and it dissuades people from shaving with a straight. Don't be put off if you can't get the GD to shaving spec. The cheapest budget razor that is recommended is the Dovo best quality. They retail at about £60. Even then out of the box they don't shave. You need to have them honed. A good selection of sellers do this and advertise it. Ebay sellers and store type shops don't. And it adds to the cost when you then have to send it out to be honed.

Cheap hones can have similar problems. At lower grits 1000-5000 grit this isn't a problem as these hones are not finishing stones. As you progress to a shaving edge 8000-12000 then things start to change. You pay for the brands because those companies grade the abrasives correctly. And it's the grading you pay for, a badly graded 8K stone is good for nothing, It'll ruin the edge, and cost you much frustration and time.

Cheap strops are only a problem if not leather, or if poor quality leather and hangers. Leather is leather, and for someone who is wanting to learn a cheap working strop that can be damaged without costing much is worth far more that something expensive that you have to handle with kid gloves.

Oh and go buy some cheap highstreet soaps and brushes.

Savers - erasmic boar brush
Wilko - wilkinson sword boar brush, palmolive shave stick
Superdrug - ingram cream
Bodyshop - maccaroot shave cream

All of those products are cheap enough and work. Special praise to the palmolive stick. It's 50p normally and is superb.

Originally Posted by Iceni

Nortons are a non contender in the UK/Europe Mr Marshal. Exchange rates make them overpriced.

King are well priced. The 1000/6000 icebear can be had for under £40 from amazon. It's not a finishing stone and the 6K side is on the rougher end of the 6K spectrum. But if you have other stones to work from it then it'll work.

Hmm, haven't seen what the Nortons run in your neck of the woods, but I'll take your word for it. On these shores, if you pick up both Norton combination stones AND a Naniwa 12K it will cost a little over half what a full (Chosera 1)-3-5-8-12 Naniwa SS set would. And the brunt of that cost will be the Naniwa 12K. About 20% cheaper if you compare the price of the 1, 4, and 8K single grit hones. Still a little bit costly, but not as painful as other options. I think the King 1k/6k is still probably the cheapest commonly used option available.

As to the underlined part, there's at least 1 member here that uses an Ice Bear 1k/6K as his only hone. Take that for what you will, but the hobby is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. That much is for sure.

There are a lot of things I would like to try for kicks and grins, like your 2K/5K. The Weiwei line for example. Or a larger version of this 3k/10k hone. But it's hard to justify gambling on unknown hones when I've already got a good line up on the low, mid and start of the high range. At this point money is better spent gambling on cheap finishing hones - and I do that more than perhaps I should

1, 5, 10 superstones will run at £150, $220. For a combo deal from K&T's.

4/8 12K like you posted would be similar. Cheapest 4/8 is £85 + £70 for the 12K. £155, $225. If it were one of the more expensive 4/8's they can be £130 so it bumps everything into skyrocket prices. 130 + 70 £200, $290. We have to be real careful with US imports. 1:1 currency conversion or worse is very common here.

The 2/5 + 8K is £80, $120. I did mention the 2/5 been a gamble. I need to pick one up for myself to test it. It represents a good price point and if it bevel sets and works then it's a possible stone to advise on. Of not it's a £20 knife sharpening stone. I may have one for myself and compare it to the king and naniwa stones I have.

It would be cheapest to go the 2/5 route by a huge margin. If it works then hey it works, The king works as I already own one, and used it with a natural finisher before I moved over to naniwa. The king is actually pretty nice, It's a mid speed stone, very forgiving and hard so you have 0 chance of gouging it. The king is also pretty well regarded. They do an 800, 1000, and 1200 stone and they appear in a lot of the honing video's. GSsixgun often uses a king 1K in his video's. The stand alone kings are larger than the combination stone. The combo is still large enough to use without a problem, it's about 7 inches by 2 inches.

http://www.worldofsurvival.com/japan...272501590-id57

1/6 + rubbing stone for <£30.

There is also the naniwa 1/3 combo. It's a fraction more expensive than the 2/5. But it's naniwa so the quality will be there. Again it's a cheaper end soak stone, and will probably have a very similar finish to the king overall. Again you'd need an 8K with it to produce a shave-able edge.

Naniwa Combination Stone, CS-510/430, grit: 1000/3000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

Yea, the general concensus is that 8k and up is shave ready territory. And how you get there is of less importance than the quality of the finisher. Might be worth looking into a King 1/6 and a Naniwa 3/8. No large gaps between phases and you've got your 8k edge.

Well, on the bright side finishers seem to be priced similarly on either side of the pond. Naniwa 10 and 12K are 77 and 88 USD. I think you guys can get Welsh Slates a little cheaper (international shipping hurts!) if Naturals are your thing, and the PHIG is priced the same. I probably don't want to know what an Arkansas stone runs you guys.

With a solid 1k I'm sure the GD will be easier to tame. Mine shaves ok, when the stars align and my honing experiments produce a useable edge

Well, what you will need, all depends on what is wrong with it. They generally have, thick and uneven in the spines, high stablizers, sharp heels that need reshaping, hard steel, warped, uneven grinds, improper bevel angles, and incompletely ground bevels.

Pretty much unfinished razors, but sometimes you get lucky. Oh, and flimsy badly pinned scales that make stropping difficult and may just pop the pins, when stropping.

So, it really depends on the razor what it needs. A dual grit diamond plate will make the correction/repair work go much quicker, followed by a good 1k stone to set the bevel.

I like the 400/1k, 8X3 inch, diamond plate from CKTG for $35, it will also lap your stones.