Thread: Can't keep an edge

Originally Posted by Euclid440

There has always been a debate over how much, Coticule slurry breaks down, probably not so much, which is why you have to dilute to get the best results, when and how much to dilute is trial and error. But it is all moot, if your stone grits are in the wrong order.

More than likely no matter the progression, you are not doing enough laps. On heavy slurry, do lots of circles to flatten the bevels, finish on x laps, then dilute on the most aggressive stone to finish. Use ink to monitor your progress.

I assume that my La Grise with slurry is faster than the BBW with slurry, correct? That is why I use the coticule for bevel setting. I do the dilucot on the BBW because somewhere I read I would get a keener edge, though it would take more time. I read somewhere that fingertips cannot determine a grit much finer than 3-4K, but your tongue is good to 8K+. By tongue and razor feedback I believe my bout is finer than the La Grise.

I will take the 'not doing enough laps' to heart. And I will incorporate the 'inked bevel' test. Thanks for all the fine advice.

These describe the characteristics of THOSE La Grise hones, yours might act somewhat like them:

http://www.coticule.be/coticule001.html
http://www.coticule.be/coticule002.html
http://www.coticule.be/coticule047.html

Some words by Bart about that last La Grise:

Not the fastest Coticule, but still potent enough to recondition the bevel of a dull razor. Finishing on water is slower than average, with a very keen and mellow edge result, as long as you're not afraid of doing enough laps, somewhere between 100 and 200 to finish a Dilucot. The edge will be very nice earlier than that, but it absolutely pays to give this Coticule time to work its magic on water.

If the edge is far off, I'd rather be using a Coticule with slurry to set the bevel, if it's not that far off I have used the BBW with slurry to do so.
Every BBW with slurry for me has been (much) slower than my Coticule with slurry though, it all works, it just depends how fast or how slow it all works.

Good luck!

Thanks for the links Tristan. Mine looks more like the second one, like wood grain with a little bit of blue. Mine doesn't seem to be 'moderate' on slurry though. I have only the CH Laurent and a SRDroescher that I have ever attempted to bring back to life. I guess I just need to spend more time at the early stage. I've read stories of honemiester's taking a chipped blade to HHT in 20 minutes or so... So I thought with my limited tools, knowledge, and experience a couple of hours would suffice. I guess not.

“I assume that my La Grise with slurry is faster than the BBW with slurry, correct? “
No.

They are Natural stones, and even if they were from the same layer of coticule as yours, they might be very different in performance. In addition to grit size, pressure and slurry will affect results.

So, just because it looks like X stone, does not mean it will perform like someone else’s stone.

You do not need to slurry any synthetic stone, a King 1k will auto slurry and the 1200 should work just fine for setting a bevel. You do not need more speed, just a lower grit than your coticule or more laps.

Kings are soft, so you will have to lap with your 325 diamond plate.

You will learn more about honing and your stones, in one hour, with Glen than watching years, of videos and posts.

just a small hint

We might end up having a small Idaho get together up at my place around the 21st - 22nd of July consider this an invite..

Bring your Coticules and let's find out what is going on

Originally Posted by gssixgun

just a small hint

We might end up having a small Idaho get together up at my place around the 21st - 22nd of July consider this an invite..

Bring your Coticules and let's find out what is going on

How small?

Originally Posted by Utopian

How small?

so far two bikers and a mountain man. Tc

Originally Posted by gssixgun

just a small hint

We might end up having a small Idaho get together up at my place around the 21st - 22nd of July consider this an invite..

Bring your Coticules and let's find out what is going on

Hmm, I would like to ride the Motorcycle over for your get together Glen, been wanting to meet you and see another friend I have who lives in Sand point, would be the best ride of the summer no doubt.

I found some time this weekend to put much of the advice given to use. After relapping the King, I spent at least an hour doing circles on water. I don't think I made much progress; there was not enough pressure to generate a self slurry and I never saw steel in the water. It would take ink of the bevel... So I raised a slurry with the diamond hone and spent another hour laying down circles. I did get some feedback with the slurry, and after a while saw the telltale grey of the steel in the slurry. Outside, in the sun, I could not see any reflections off the edge; naked eye or with a loupe. It would take arm hair. Dilucot on the coticule; about 20 dilutions, additional x-strokes as the slurry thinned out, then 200 on water alone. This morning's shave was ok, not great, but ok. We'll see what happens Thursday.

I really don't care for using that King. Perhaps my ill results from past experience with the stone has soured my expectations. I think I'll invest in a Naniwa SS on my next SRD purchase.

Thanks again to all who responded to my initial post with advice.

And that is part of what you will get from hands on learning. We always say no pressure, but that is not true, especially when bevel setting.

You need some pressure, sometimes a lot of pressure. You have to do what the razor needs. Once you grind the bevels flat and in the correct plane, then lighten up on the pressure and polish the bevel. Try adding an additional layer of tape to increase the angle.

The problem is your definition of lite or heavy pressure will be vastly different from mine.

Additionally, almost none of us are honing the same razor in the same condition on the same stones.

Photos of your razor and bevels would help in advising you.