Thread: Trouble honing a flea market find (Imperial Razor, Germania Cutlery Works)

Been working on this for a couple of weeks. I posted the find in the new things forum. This is a Germania Cutlery Works, Imperial Razor.

First honing I used three layers of tape, then down to 2 once I thought I had the bevel set. Stayed with 2 layers since. Can't seem to get it shaving at the tip quarter of the blade. It looks like maybe I found another dremel job by the previous owner.

Here's the whole razor:




First shave after my normal progress (Naniwa 1K, Norton 4, Norton 8, Naniwa 12, and finished on a thuri, CROX and strop on leather) I thought I was too timid with the tip since it has a wicked point and I didn't want to slice the @#$% out of my face again. Second shave confirmed it wasn't the technique - it was the honing.

Back to the hones and worked all the way through the progression again. Couldn't get it shaving arm hair satisfactorily. Put it up for a week or two and tried again a few days ago. Went with two layers of tape and spent an awful long time on the 1K, an equally long time on the 4K. Back to the 1K and added a J stroke and eased up on the pressure as I went along for what seemed like an eternity! Got it shaving arm hair on the 1K finally but not great at the first 1/4 of the tip. Everywhere else it was great. Worked it out on the 4K changing the tape every time I moved to a new stone. 8K, 12K and finished on the thuri, little CROX on a felt strip and ready for a stropping in the morning. Stropped and shaved and not much better than the last time.

Back to the hones last night. Three layers of tape and a significant amount of time on the 1K. I would rather spend the time and not apply to much pressure. After quite some time I got it shaving arm hair everywhere but the tip section. Went through the stone progression, changing tape often and shaved again this am - great shave everywhere along the blade but the tip.

So here's some bad pictures of the blade overall to show symmetry is pretty good with little spine wear:



And a picture of the swirls I'm seeing which I think might be an indicator of the problem? I can't get everything in focus when I'm so close.



I can take it to the buffing wheel if anyone thinks that might help.

Adam

I would want to check the symmetry left to right, looking down the spine of the blade. Then, I would check the bevel on both sides (I use a scope) to make sure you are creating a continuous, solid bevel (it sounds like you are not). It is either twisted, bent, or warped from the looks of the photos IMHO. Is it pushing a solid line of slurry when you are setting the bevel on the 1k or is it missing the toe?

No expert, but if it is shaving well all along the blade except for near the tip I'd try working the part that isn't shaving on the bevel setter till the bevel is set there. Like I say I'm no expert but I have had to work certain specific parts of a blade more in order have the bevel set there when all other parts of the blade were already set. Just an idea.

Bob

I would use a Sharpie on the bevel to see if that was being addressed when on the hone.


Mike

Is the bevel the same on both sides, (toe not honed) and is the bevel the same from toe to heel, (same width) or does it taper?

What magnification are you using?

Try just 2 layers of tape and ink the bevel with colored ink, it is much easier to see. Do a couple laps and see where the ink comes off?

If you are missing the toe on one side only, you can add a bit of pressure on the toe, with the heel and half the razor off the stone, to get the toe honed or use a X stroke with the slightest rolling /pressure added at the swoop.

Keep re-inking the bevel, to ensure you are making progress. You also need to make sure you are not adding too much pressure, that you flex the blade and lift the edge off the stone.

If you are using too much pressure, the ink at back of the bevel will be removed but the ink on the edge will remain. You will have to ink the bevel and experiment how much pressure is too much.

Ink and magnification will tell you where the problem is. An X stroke where the heel comes off the stone will allow a warped razor to be honed at the middle and the toe.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Is the bevel the same on both sides, (toe not honed) and is the bevel the same from toe to heel, (same width) or does it taper?

What magnification are you using?

Try just 2 layers of tape and ink the bevel with colored ink, it is much easier to see. Do a couple laps and see where the ink comes off?

If you are missing the toe on one side only, you can add a bit of pressure on the toe, with the heel and half the razor off the stone, to get the toe honed or use a X stroke with the slightest rolling /pressure added at the swoop.

Keep re-inking the bevel, to ensure you are making progress. You also need to make sure you are not adding too much pressure, that you flex the blade and lift the edge off the stone.

If you are using too much pressure, the ink at back of the bevel will be removed but the ink on the edge will remain. You will have to ink the bevel and experiment how much pressure is too much.

Ink and magnification will tell you where the problem is. An X stroke where the heel comes off the stone will allow a warped razor to be honed at the middle and the toe.

Thanks everyone - I hadn't considered a warp. I have a glass table and it seemed to lay perfectly flat with no rocking when I checked it when I first brought it home. I don't remember if I checked both sides likk that. I'll try that again and follow this advice and report back. I can take pictures with microscope magnification as I go.

Adam

Originally Posted by aalbina

Thanks everyone - I hadn't considered a warp. I have a glass table and it seemed to lay perfectly flat with no rocking when I checked it when I first brought it home. I don't remember if I checked both sides likk that. I'll try that again and follow this advice and report back. I can take pictures with microscope magnification as I go.

Adam

I was just about to say it may indeed be warped. The shadow in the first picture shows a distinctive difference in the toe versus the rest of the blade.

Members more experienced with warped blades that I will provide a better solution. I could only suggest a rolling X stroke from experience.

If you could get some more clear pics it would be helpful in diagnosis Aalbina.

What I can see so far is a pretty nice razor, not much hone wear.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Is the bevel the same on both sides, (toe not honed) and is the bevel the same from toe to heel, (same width) or does it taper?

The bevel is is the same on both sides, the bevel tapers smaller ever so slightly at toward the toe. The blade width spine to toe edge is slightly larger than the blade width spine to heel edge. So the razor is about .005 larger at the toe than the heel.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

What magnification are you using?

60x lighted loop. I didn't break out the scope for this one.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Try just 2 layers of tape and ink the bevel with colored ink, it is much easier to see. Do a couple laps and see where the ink comes off?

Tried that last night and I was missing the toe slightly on both sides. There does not appear to be a warp in the blade.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

If you are missing the toe on one side only, you can add a bit of pressure on the toe, with the heel and half the razor off the stone, to get the toe honed or use a X stroke with the slightest rolling /pressure added at the swoop.

The rolling X-stroke on both sides seemed to have taken car of the problem. I'm just not sure why it worked when there does not appear to be a warp. An ideas?

Adam

Spine might be just a hair thicker toward the toe, keeping that section off the stone? Only thing I can think of if it isn't warped.