Thread: Can a razor pass all the bevel setting test and still not be set?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

[I]
Sharpie ink on the bevel, and some magnification would tell you, if you were not honing all the way, to the edge.

Sharpie inking the bevel is invaluable to me in my honing process. A couple of laps will show me pretty much all I need to know to progress: 45°, torque, rolling x strokes needed etc to hone to the edge. Then good magnification will tell me if the bevel is set and if all stria is removed with progressive hones there on.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You are missing the point perhaps in translation

You can define the pressure that you used on one razor, but that amount of pressure might not work on the next razor...
This is exactly what takes Honing SR's out of the realm of engineering and into the realm of art.. Or as so many like to sarcastically say "Honing ain't Rocket Science" in which they are correct,, rocket science is exact, and honing SR's ain't


I will see if I can't find the old threads on it for you


Once again I am not saying it is a bad idea I am telling you the flaws we found in it

You are absolutely right. My point is, for a new honer like myself it very difficult to identify the meaning of pressure. If I have a way to identify and avoid destroying razors (all ready destroy two) I will be happy with it. You with 3 strokes on the stone you can understand immediately how match pressure you need to put just by looking the pattern. I can’t!!!
I have seen your videos more than 10 times to start understanding the meaning of honing.
Again my proposal is only to avoid destroying razor out of pressure better 50 strokes more than a destroyed razor.
Thanks again for the precious comments.

Originally Posted by vsmirnios

You are absolutely right. My point is, for a new honer like myself it very difficult to identify the meaning of pressure. If I have a way to identify and avoid destroying razors (all ready destroy two) I will be happy with it. You with 3 strokes on the stone you can understand immediately how match pressure you need to put just by looking the pattern. I can’t!!!
I have seen your videos more than 10 times to start understanding the meaning of honing.
Again my proposal is only to avoid destroying razor out of pressure better 50 strokes more than a destroyed razor.
Thanks again for the precious comments.

Pressure was a big problem for me in the beginning.
Now I use very little pressure and it's all good.
Less is more

I made the same mistake with pressure, using way too much. When senior honers say weight of the blade only, it really means weight of the blade only. Add a touch of torque towards the edge if needed. The sharpie marking will tell you if torque or other special techniques are needed.

Yes, pressure is always an issue for folks, new to honing. Lately, with guys I have hands on coached, they do not use enough pressure, to bevel set or at the beginning of each progression.

It is impossible to tell someone what is enough or the amount, of pressure to use on a particular razor at a particular time, except for, more or less, after witnessing the results.

Torqueing is a form of pressure, just that the majority of pressure is on the bevel, not equally on the spine and bevel. It can have its issues, as well.

As said, pressure needed varies constantly, depending on many factors, mainly the honer, but especially the razor. You have to do what the razor/bevel/edge needs, at that time, depending on what your goal is and what you see.

For example, setting a bevel on a razor, that has been bread-knifed, will require more pressure, than one that has not had edge repair and the bevels are meeting, flat and in the same plane. And even the same bread-knifed edge will need more pressure at the beginning, than at the finishing of the bevel set.

Also for most stones in the progression, I start with more pressure, at the beginning of each stone use, and taper off, as the finish on the bevel progresses, and use less pressure than the previous stone, but not always.

Again, you have to do, what the razor needs. As you gain more experience you will be able to read the bevel and tell how much and in which direction you need to apply pressure, more or less.

Yes, the amount of pressure can be measured, for a particular task, on a particular razor, but that requirement will change with each razor, even razors of the same type, size and style, made by the same maker, at the same time. Hell, even on the same razor, from one side to the other.

Probably better than, focusing on quantifying pressure, you would have more consistent results, by understanding what you are seeing at the bevel, then correcting the pressure, by adding more or less. How you add pressure, does not matter all that much, as long as the spine is protected with tape.

I would be curious to see your ruined razors, because unless you used excessive pressure on very low grit stones, you would have seen, that you were going in the wrong direction.

Again, looking at the results, will tell you what to do next, doing the same thing and expecting different results, does not work.

Here is a good post, by a new honer, taking a razor from start to finish with lots of excellent micrographs showing his progress, issues with the razor and how he overcame them.

Second Try at Honing.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yes, pressure is always an issue for folks, new to honing. Lately, with guys I have hands on coached, they do not use enough pressure, to bevel set or at the beginning of each progression.

It is impossible to tell someone what is enough or the amount, of pressure to use on a particular razor at a particular time, except for, more or less, after witnessing the results.

Torqueing is a form of pressure, just that the majority of pressure is on the bevel, not equally on the spine and bevel. It can have its issues, as well.

As said, pressure needed varies constantly, depending on many factors, mainly the honer, but especially the razor. You have to do what the razor/bevel/edge needs, at that time, depending on what your goal is and what you see.

For example, setting a bevel on a razor, that has been bread-knifed, will require more pressure, than one that has not had edge repair and the bevels are meeting, flat and in the same plane. And even the same bread-knifed edge will need more pressure at the beginning, than at the finishing of the bevel set.

Also for most stones in the progression, I start with more pressure, at the beginning of each stone use, and taper off, as the finish on the bevel progresses, and use less pressure than the previous stone, but not always.

Again, you have to do, what the razor needs. As you gain more experience you will be able to read the bevel and tell how much and in which direction you need to apply pressure, more or less.

Yes, the amount of pressure can be measured, for a particular task, on a particular razor, but that requirement will change with each razor, even razors of the same type, size and style, made by the same maker, at the same time. Hell, even on the same razor, from one side to the other.

Probably better than, focusing on quantifying pressure, you would have more consistent results, by understanding what you are seeing at the bevel, then correcting the pressure, by adding more or less. How you add pressure, does not matter all that much, as long as the spine is protected with tape.

I would be curious to see your ruined razors, because unless you used excessive pressure on very low grit stones, you would have seen, that you were going in the wrong direction.

Again, looking at the results, will tell you what to do next, doing the same thing and expecting different results, does not work.

Here is a good post, by a new honer, taking a razor from start to finish with lots of excellent micrographs showing his progress, issues with the razor and how he overcame them.

Second Try at Honing.

Mr. Euclid440 thank you very match for the great advices plus the tremendous thread you propose. As you understand I will take 100% in my consideration your advices.
Unfortunately I can’t post pictures because in that time I had only a loop 30x and nothing else.
Thanks again.