Thread: Inexpensive/creative honing?

I just use two stones 1K & 6K with a leather and linen with CrOx strop. To keep them tip top I use a barbers hone when necessary. I get great edges on my razors that I'm satisfied with. That's all I need.

If you know how to hone and you look at the edge as you hone, it's easy to sharpen and maintain. Oh yea, I spent less than $50.00 and have been using this method for over a year now. However, it's really up to you what your expectation will be and how much money you want to spend.

Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for!

Originally Posted by Johntoad57

I just use two stones 1K & 6K with a leather and linen with CrOx strop. To keep them tip top I use a barbers hone when necessary. I get great edges on my razors that I'm satisfied with. That's all I need.

If you know how to hone and you look at the edge as you hone, it's easy to sharpen and maintain. Oh yea, I spent less than $50.00 and have been using this method for over a year now. However, it's really up to you what your expectation will be and how much money you want to spend.

Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for!

Yes, Yes, YES!

Some of us enjoy playing with a lot of toys, but that does not mean that everyone using a straight needs to invest in many hones. One or two hones really is ALL that is needed.

Originally Posted by Phrank

Setting a bevel with lapping film? Interesting....I've seen first hand a member here who had some glass plates with the lapping film on them...put some uber scary sharp edges on the razors.

What lapping films are you using and sounds like it would be easy to take to much metal away....also, do you use tape to protect the spine.

Yea, all you need is a 1k stone, like a $20 King, or 1k Wet & Dry and 3um and 1um film 6-7k and 15-16k grit.

Film can be aggressive, but once on a flat substrate, works just like any other hone, except it will yield a very uniform stria pattern and super straight edge. You can go to .3um finish, but I find it too harsh.

1um with a piece of copy paper under the film, after 1um without paper will give a very comfortable edge.

The whole process is in the library. Tape the spine, just like a stone.

Film by the way is excellent for hard chippy razors, like Harts. I buy Aluminum Oxide film from Thorlabs. It is not expensive, comes in 9X11 in sheets and can be cut with a paper cutter into 9X3 pieces, comes out to about 50 cents per piece and a piece will hone 10-20 razors, depending on how much pressure is used.

Any 3X12 in tile can be used, glass or ceramic as a substrate.

I had a few razors that needed touching up, so in the spirit of the thread I did a little 'cheap honing' action. From left to right - Germania Cutleryworks Company on a Translucent Arkansas, Gold Dollar honed on a Guangxi Hone - the little rock up top is the Guangxi rubbing stone and yellow one is a bit of coticule from SRD, and a Dovo honed with a 3 line Swaty.



If I were to rank the shaves best to worst - Gold Dollar, Dovo, then the GCW which tugged just a touch. Why did the Gold Dollar honed on a Guangxi hone come out best? Well, if I were to borrow a quote from Gssixgun's tagline:

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen

The Guangxi was the first 'razor stone' I bought. I've probably spent the most time working with that stone trying to figure it out, and now I'll get it right 9 times out of 10. The shave with this is better than I can get off a Norton 8k. And that Gold Dollar had sat in a small razor box for a few months. The edge was starting to rust and pit, it was probably in about the condition of a really good find on Ebay. I took 2 swipes across the side of a soft Arkansas to knock some of that rust off, from there I'd say it took 30 minutes to hone up to final polish on that one hone with those 2 rubbing stones to build slurry. Coticule slurry nice and thick to set the bevel. Once bevel is set, dilute until there's barely any slurry left. Then make a light haze of Guangxi slurry with the little rubbing rock that comes with them, 50 strokes. Pure water for another 50, then the secret - 50 more with shave lather instead of water. 20 strokes linen, 50 leather (can you tell I like that number?) and the shave was buttery smooth.

The Dovo - shaved about as good as an edge from a Norton 8k. Gotta admit, I was a bit scared of this one. You'll hear often, "too many strokes on a barber's hone will leave an uncomfortable edge." Well, this was well and beyond the 5 to 10 max you'd usually see recommended. The wrench was used to burnish the hone a bit better first, since it was leaving a bit of a coarse edge. If you're smart and don't lap your barber hones, you probably won't have that issue. If you're a bonehead like me that can't leave well enough alone...remember that trick. It works. A few hundred passes of hardened tool steel mellowed that hone right out.

I took 1 light stroke across the corner of the Swaty to kill the edge - for science. Spent a good 25 to 30 minutes to bring the bevel back. Once I had that set heel to toe, it was minutes to final polish, and a final 10 strokes on shave lather. I cheated a bit with this one though, like I said I was a bit leery of a blade passed that many times over a barber hone. It got 10 strokes on CrOx paste, then 25 on linen, and 100 on leather. I think I may set this blade aside for further Swaty experimentation. No tugging, no discomfort, but wasn't quite up to par with the edge from the Guangxi hone.

The GCW - shave was actually sub-par. I don't think I got the bevel quite set using -just- the translucent Arkie even though this razor didn't get any dulling at all, just a basic touch up. The trick there is kinda simple, I left one side unburnished with a bit of a rough surface for faster cutting and tinkering with slurry. I gave the razor 100 licks on that side first, and it seemed to shave arm hair OK. So I flipped the stone over to the burnished side, gave the razor 100 laps on pure water, and another 100 with shave lather, stropped the same as the Gold Dollar. If I'd used slurry or listened to my gut and gave it another 100 or so on the unburnished side I probably would've gotten it in 1 shot. It's close to right, but off by just enough to tug a teeny bit. Might revisit this one before next shave...it's going to gnaw at me to no end until I get a proper Arkie edge on that razor.

I paid less than $15 for that Arkie, about $40 for the Guangxi & bit of Coticule, and $15 for the barber hone. I could be happy with the Arkie and a bit of coticule, Guanxi & rubbing stones, or the Swaty by itself indefinitely. I don't have a lot of rocks because I need them. I have them because they're fun to play with.

Originally Posted by Marshal

If you're smart and don't lap your barber hones, you probably won't have that issue. If you're a bonehead like me that can't leave well enough alone...remember that trick. It works. A few hundred passes of hardened tool steel mellowed that hone right out.

Exactly right. Barber hones are made with relatively large grit that has been burnished smooth. Lapping them completely ruins that surface and exposes all those large pieces of grit. This is the reason that you should not lap a barber hone. Burnishing is the best way to restore it.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Exactly right. Barber hones are made with relatively large grit that has been burnished smooth. Lapping them completely ruins that surface and exposes all those large pieces of grit. This is the reason that you should not lap a barber hone. Burnishing is the best way to restore it.

I have some barber hones found at flea markets with some chips and gouges in the surface. I would like to be able to lap them but have hesitated because I've read several times not to lap barber hones. Might I be able to lap them if I were to follow with a burnishing with hardened steel?

I would say given experience, if the cracks aren't making it unusable let it be. Mine was abused and had a lot of scratches that went exactly the wrong direction for honing, and as you can see it's got nibbles on the edges that needed rounding off.

I only lapped the backside, the front should be factory. I don't use it though, less real estate with the stamp there.

The back side's been lapped, polished to 2k, and I'm slowly getting it burnished.

Originally Posted by Marshal

I had a few razors that needed touching up, so in the spirit of the thread I did a little 'cheap honing' action. From left to right - Germania Cutleryworks Company on a Translucent Arkansas, Gold Dollar honed on a Guangxi Hone - the little rock up top is the Guangxi rubbing stone and yellow one is a bit of coticule from SRD, and a Dovo honed with a 3 line Swaty.



If I were to rank the shaves best to worst - Gold Dollar, Dovo, then the GCW which tugged just a touch. Why did the Gold Dollar honed on a Guangxi hone come out best? Well, if I were to borrow a quote from Gssixgun's tagline:



The Guangxi was the first 'razor stone' I bought. I've probably spent the most time working with that stone trying to figure it out, and now I'll get it right 9 times out of 10. The shave with this is better than I can get off a Norton 8k. And that Gold Dollar had sat in a small razor box for a few months. The edge was starting to rust and pit, it was probably in about the condition of a really good find on Ebay. I took 2 swipes across the side of a soft Arkansas to knock some of that rust off, from there I'd say it took 30 minutes to hone up to final polish on that one hone with those 2 rubbing stones to build slurry. Coticule slurry nice and thick to set the bevel. Once bevel is set, dilute until there's barely any slurry left. Then make a light haze of Guangxi slurry with the little rubbing rock that comes with them, 50 strokes. Pure water for another 50, then the secret - 50 more with shave lather instead of water. 20 strokes linen, 50 leather (can you tell I like that number?) and the shave was buttery smooth.

The Dovo - shaved about as good as an edge from a Norton 8k. Gotta admit, I was a bit scared of this one. You'll hear often, "too many strokes on a barber's hone will leave an uncomfortable edge." Well, this was well and beyond the 5 to 10 max you'd usually see recommended. The wrench was used to burnish the hone a bit better first, since it was leaving a bit of a coarse edge. If you're smart and don't lap your barber hones, you probably won't have that issue. If you're a bonehead like me that can't leave well enough alone...remember that trick. It works. A few hundred passes of hardened tool steel mellowed that hone right out.

I took 1 light stroke across the corner of the Swaty to kill the edge - for science. Spent a good 25 to 30 minutes to bring the bevel back. Once I had that set heel to toe, it was minutes to final polish, and a final 10 strokes on shave lather. I cheated a bit with this one though, like I said I was a bit leery of a blade passed that many times over a barber hone. It got 10 strokes on CrOx paste, then 25 on linen, and 100 on leather. I think I may set this blade aside for further Swaty experimentation. No tugging, no discomfort, but wasn't quite up to par with the edge from the Guangxi hone.

The GCW - shave was actually sub-par. I don't think I got the bevel quite set using -just- the translucent Arkie even though this razor didn't get any dulling at all, just a basic touch up. The trick there is kinda simple, I left one side unburnished with a bit of a rough surface for faster cutting and tinkering with slurry. I gave the razor 100 licks on that side first, and it seemed to shave arm hair OK. So I flipped the stone over to the burnished side, gave the razor 100 laps on pure water, and another 100 with shave lather, stropped the same as the Gold Dollar. If I'd used slurry or listened to my gut and gave it another 100 or so on the unburnished side I probably would've gotten it in 1 shot. It's close to right, but off by just enough to tug a teeny bit. Might revisit this one before next shave...it's going to gnaw at me to no end until I get a proper Arkie edge on that razor.

I paid less than $15 for that Arkie, about $40 for the Guangxi & bit of Coticule, and $15 for the barber hone. I could be happy with the Arkie and a bit of coticule, Guanxi & rubbing stones, or the Swaty by itself indefinitely. I don't have a lot of rocks because I need them. I have them because they're fun to play with.

Is the Guanxi stone the same as the Chinese 12k sold by Whipped Dog?

Also, is this a technique that could be used on any set of hones. Could you take any finishing hone and get a couple of slurry stones and get a good edge (with experience)?

Also, could you just use a little W/D sandpaper on any hone to raise a little slurry before diluting with water or does that only work with certain slurry stones?

Yes, Guangxi = Chinese 12K/PHIG etc. Many names, same stone. C12Ks are very hit and miss though, they don't all behave exactly the same. If you score a really hard one that performs well with a burnished surface like an Arkansas stone, then it should work the same.

I would say if you have a hard finisher that doesn't slurry or is hard to slurry, then you can probably replicate the results with just about any stone and a piece of coticule. The coticule is the real workhorse. Once those garnets in that stone are broken loose into a slurry they cut surprisingly fast for a natural stone. It is perhaps fastest when using an actual coticule hone as a base, and that is also the only time I would pair it with a soft hone for fear of garnets getting embedded into a soft material. For a softer hone like the Dragon's Tongue, I default to the supplied rubbing stone made of the same material. It can do the same thing, it's just a little slower.

I would not use wet/dry sand paper to raise a slurry. Sand paper is going to release it's own grit particles as well, and those may be far more coarse than what you want in a slurry. I've read about people using diamond hones, but I have a similar concern there. If a large enough diamond comes loose off the hone you likely wouldn't know until it already chewed the edge up. If you've got a really fine diamond hone you can try that, but another thing to keep in mind is something abrasive like sand paper or a diamond hone will undo your burnished surface with a quickness. After you've lapped a hard stone flat, polished away all the scratches from the lapping plate (and progressive grit levels of sand paper), then run a hard steel tool across the surface a few hundred times to get a good burnish the last thing you want to do is mar that surface.

If you're using naturals, to me it makes sense to pair a natural hone with a natural slurry stone. Usually one that is softer than your hone, or made of the same base material. I haven't hurt the burnished surface of any of my naturals with a natural slurry stone. I'm sure it could be done, just less likely. People have a fair amount of success raising slurry on various hones with a small 1"x4" Fine (Translucent/Surgical Black) pocket Arkansas stone. Just don't try raising slurry on an Arkie with an Arkie. They're incredibly hard, you'll just tire yourself out for nothing.

For synthetics they often sell some sort of slurry/nagura stone designed for that specific brand, and in those cases I would default to one of those for building a slurry. Or maybe a fine diamond hone that's been broken in, since synthetics are softer and not too likely to knock diamonds loose from a worn-in plate.

One more thought in regard to the whipped dog hone - I have a small 2x5 Arkie that I tried with a slurry for kicks and giggles. With a hone that short, I really wasn't able to keep much slurry atop the stone for any length of time. It might be doable with a 4x2, but I feel like it would be very time intensive constantly stopping to work up a slurry that you're just going to knock off within a minute or 2.

A 6" long stone (150mm for those outside the states) is probably about as short as I'd go for a hone I plan to use a slurry with.