Thread: Inexpensive/creative honing?

I pick up thuringians for $10 at antique stores and $25-$30 on ebay all the time.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Sorry, none of mine are paperweights, but I do have several loaners floating around. I suppose it was a little harsh to call it a paperweight. It was only within the context of being considered between the 8k and 12k.

Well, not really harsh. Like you said, it would just add an unnecessary step between the 8 and 12k. And a long one, since it will usually take a substantial amount of strokes on a slow natural to get the best polish out of it. With something like a Naniwa 12k lying around, I imagine the Chinese 12K would be doing a lot of sitting around unused unless the end user found the edge off the natural to be more comfortable. And in that case, used after the Naniwa and not before.

I was just giving you a hard time Utopian.

I see people talking about how great natural stones are even though they can be slower and not have a specific grit rating but that natural rock mined in China is not so good because it doesn't have a specific grit rating and because it's slow. The natural vs synthetic edge is rarely praised as it is with every other stone as well.

It's also inexpensive which is generally considered to be a feature. If we had to refer to them in the Chinese language as with Jnats maybe there would be more mystique.

It also seems, indirectly, to imply, with terms like Chug or whatever that it's just a cheap Chinese knockoff whereas, obviously, we are talking about a rock and the political and economic structure of the land above the rock is not germane to it's usefulness.

Having said all that, I was still just joking around.

Well, I think part of the issue is that, with the Chinese 12K, instead of marketing it as a Guangxi hone (like they should), people try to sell it by grit rating a natural stone. Now, compound this with the fact that there are varying performances among these stones that range from barely improving a 4K edge to being an improvement on an 8K, but most certainly not a side step/equivalence to a 12K synthetic. They've kind of set themselves up for the hit or miss reputation the C12K has.

I can't say enough good things about my Guangxi hone, BUT the caveat is that's my rock. It performs equivalent to a Translucent Arkansas stone, and you really can't ask for more than that out of any natural. But the importers/sellers of these stones either haven't identified or don't care to identify which ones are the hard/fine polishers and which ones are mid grade and almost useless as a finishing stone.

I do believe Chinese hones have a stigma, and it's unfair to them. The 2 that I have, a Guangxi and a ZY Razor hone, are both capable of putting a very nice shaving edge on a razor that is an improvement over a Norton 8K. I also think Jnats are sort of put on a pedestal. I don't think there's much they can do that can't be done with an Escher/Thuringian, fine coticule, Welsh Slate, Translucent/Black Arkansas, or even a good Guangxi hone. In fact I've gotten some of my best shaving edges off the Chinese rocks.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Well, I think part of the issue is that, with the Chinese 12K, instead of marketing it as a Guangxi hone (like they should), people try to sell it by grit rating a natural stone. Now, compound this with the fact that there are varying performances among these stones that range from barely improving a 4K edge to being an improvement on an 8K, but most certainly not a side step/equivalence to a 12K synthetic. They've kind of set themselves up for the hit or miss reputation the C12K has.

I can't say enough good things about my Guangxi hone, BUT the caveat is that's my rock. It performs equivalent to a Translucent Arkansas stone, and you really can't ask for more than that out of any natural. But the importers/sellers of these stones either haven't identified or don't care to identify which ones are the hard/fine polishers and which ones are mid grade and almost useless as a finishing stone.

I do believe Chinese hones have a stigma, and it's unfair to them. The 2 that I have, a Guangxi and a ZY Razor hone, are both capable of putting a very nice shaving edge on a razor that is an improvement over a Norton 8K. I also think Jnats are sort of put on a pedestal. I don't think there's much they can do that can't be done with an Escher/Thuringian, fine coticule, Welsh Slate, Translucent/Black Arkansas, or even a good Guangxi hone. In fact I've gotten some of my best shaving edges off the Chinese rocks.

I don't know if there is such a thread here, but it would be interesting to me for those (of you) who have delved into straight shaving/honing deeper and longer than I have to put up a thread busting shaving myths or being "real" with what is fact and what is just fun to have.

You, in effect, did that with this post pointing out that if the end result is just a good shave that it can be done with most anything.

The blade needing to "rest" and therefore shouldn't be honed after shaving is an obvious myth but I'm sure there are many more.

One thing I really appreciated when I was newer to these subjects was when I found someone who was very knowledgeable and into hones, straights, and any of the related subject matter who could separate his love for some of those things and the truth that a newbie needs to hear which is generally that you don't really need any of those things and your shaving really improves for the most part due to technique and not due to getting an expensive strop or another nagura stone or whatever.

People who tell newbies that you need to buy the best xxx whatever because you'll eventually buy it anyway are speaking more about their past behavior than the best advice for a newbie.

Are there any "busted" shaving myths threads here?

I don't think there's a collection of busted myths type of thread, but generally when someone posts a question, "I heard a blade needs to rest before it's honed, Is this true?" Typically you'll see someone steer them in the right direction.

And you do see this often in regard to honing. For the most part we readily tell people, "You don't need $500 in hones. Buy a Norton 4/8 or Naniwa 3/8 and have at it!" And sure, at around $80 they're a little pricey. But the reason we steer newbies that way is that it takes the hones themselves out of the equation when trying to figure out why someone isn't getting good results.

They don't require prep and surfacing like a Guangxi or Arkansas. Lap flat with a DMT, maybe sand the scratches our with 1K sand paper, and synthetics are ready to go. No need to fuss with figuring out slurry, no questioning if the person got a good rock.

Once they've got a set of Norton/Naniwa/Shapton hones, the only variable left is the hands honing the blade. It's not the cheapest option, true. But it is the simplest, and it isn't the most expensive.