Thread: Why should I kill the edge before honing?

Originally Posted by Humanalien

Well, the title says it all, why should I ?

Just new to honing and learning a lot, everything seems logic from what i've read, but killing the edge doesn't...

Just came in from the shop and I snapped a pic for you as I am planning a series of "How NOT to Hone" so I am collecting pics

Why would I "Kill the Edge" before I start ???

If you look, and the edge like this one fresh off the buffers and see





Do a few laps or Circles "Kill the Edge" set the bevel, check the steel for micro-chipping again and decide what to do next...


Honing baby !!!! ain't it fun

Wow, thats one ****ed up edge :-O
Then I might be lucky with what I have bought to teach myself honing.
Was the edge rusted a lot?

But of course all of that would be eliminated as soon as the edge makes contact during the bevel set...

Originally Posted by Humanalien

Was the edge rusted a lot?

No it was a brand new custom that was honed "Heavy Handed" without tape, so I am trying to get it back to looking better and shaving again...

This is what Rezdog/Shawn was talking about above in his first post about "Restoring" and finding this kind of stuff..

To be clear there are other techniques of removing this WITHOUT killing the edge, back honing and Pyramids come to mind
As long as you end up with a clean even solid bevel that is the goal..

Which is what he is implying above

Originally Posted by Utopian

But of course all of that would be eliminated as soon as the edge makes contact during the bevel set...

You have to find what works best for you and the razor you are honing

Now that we have established that the methods are the same; I recommend that from this point on, we refer to this process as "Kill-Jointing".

Carry on ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Originally Posted by Utopian

I don't feel that you are being a thorn at all. I'm not taking it that way.

In direct answer to your question, I would say that the second version is correct.

I'm just going by the terminology that has historically been used here. I consider whether or not I advocate or oppose either technique to be pretty much irrelevant but I do hope that our terms can be used in a way to avoid confusion. Maybe I'm wrong with my considered distinction between the two terms but here is how I consider them...

My first recollection of killing the edge as a common term was when Bart advocated it when he was promoting one coticule honing. I do remember it being very rarely used before that but it seemed to be in the same context. That was, that in order for a beginner to better understand when he had created an at least adequate bevel set, the beginner would take a razor that may actually feel somewhat sharp and would run that edge along a glass or a corner of a hone. This was done to create a blatantly dull edge. This way the beginner could feel a very noticeable change when he brought that edge back to sharp, supposedly when the bevel was set.

In summary, killing the edge was done as the very first thing before the beginning of setting a bevel. It's purpose was to make it easier for a beginner to realize when he had created a relatively sharp edge.

Joining or jointing the edge started being discussed when a side honing video was created. I think JimmyHAD was the first one that I recall describing it. The side honing was the primary difference in technique but it also described joining or jointing the edge in order to make a straighter edge, either by removing a burr or small chips in the edge. Later JimR's translation of Iwasaki's honing treatise was made available. Many interpreted (incorrectly in my opinion) Iwasaki's final finishing step as a description of joining/jointing. That caused an increased propagation of the method as a means of correcting flaws in the blade created during the honing process.

In summary, joining/jointing was done to remove minor defects, such as burrs or chips, in the edge that occur during honing in order to produce a cleaner edge.

My understandings come from the same background. I thought Bart was crazy when I first read that but now I understand. At that time, I had not heard all of the variables that folks encounter with 'new to them' razors.

Overhoning was never an issue for me as I didn't backhone at that time.

Great site we have here!

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Now that we have established that the methods are the same; I recommend that from this point on, we refer to this process as "Kill-Jointing".

Carry on ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I like where you are going here, BUT, in the highly rarefied air that we are floating on with this topic every time it comes up, might I suggest that "Joint-Killing" might be more apropos

Nope.

You've got to add Bread to the term in order to have the full tri-fecta.

So now "bread Kill Jointing knifing" is a thing, BKJK for short!

Personally I never use the kill on glass edge method unless I'm showing someone how to strop and don't want to wreak strops, I see no reason for it. I do use the jointing method when working on crumbly/chippy edges and for me, that works well for that

Originally Posted by Utopian

Nope.

You've got to add Bread to the term in order to have the full tri-fecta.

Originally Posted by rodb

Personally I never use the kill on glass edge method unless I'm showing someone how to strop and don't want to wreak strops, I see no reason for it. I do use the jointing method when working on crumbly/chippy edges and for me, that works well for that

IF the science of sharp guy's photos can be believed, then glassing the edge might not be good for your strop. The photo showed that the edge folded over in an extreme "J" shape and this might lead to hook side of the "J" digging into the leather.

I've never tried it though. I just thought I'd toss it out for you to consider.