Thread: Chemically/physically speaking, why does oil/glycerin make for a closer honing?

As an aside relating to glycerin, in the tattoo biz we used to mix our own colors with dry pigment, listerine, alcohol, and distilled water. The 45% alcohol would disperse the pigment. I used to mix my 1/2 pound packs of red, orange, green, what have you, in half gallon jugs and fill 4oz bottles as needed.

Three drops of glycerin in a 1/2 gallon made the ink 'slick' and it would go into the skin more easily, wouldn't clump up as it would if you didn't know to add the glycerin. Twenty or thirty years ago I would have never publicly stated that 'trade secret', but now the cow is so far out of the barn there is no sense trying to close the doors.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

More water, makes water wetter.

On Jnats and most synthetics anything but water is not advised. Smith's honing solution is water soluble but I personally do not use it on Jnats or synthetics. To me the type of natural stone dictates the type of lubrication needed for best results. Stones such as Arkansas or Charnley Forest may benefit more from non-water lubrication, but stones like J-Nats will not mesh well with honing oils or other solutions because of absorption into the stone.
I can get perfectly smooth and keen edges off Jnats or synthetics with water, the key is to use the right amount of pressure when doing the finishing strokes.

Very true Stefan,

But I wish you'd tell those guys in Japan that! I've had to soak many a jnat in isopropyl alcohol overnight to get rid of whatever that vile smelling yellow honing oil is that they sometimes use. Fortunately it does not seem to penetrate the stone that much and usually an overnight soak does it. A wooden dais soaked with it is however, another story.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by mainaman

On Jnats and most synthetics anything but water is not advised. Smith's honing solution is water soluble but I personally do not use it on Jnats or synthetics. To me the type of natural stone dictates the type of lubrication needed for best results. Stones such as Arkansas or Charnley Forest may benefit more from non-water lubrication, but stones like J-Nats will not mesh well with honing oils or other solutions because of absorption into the stone.
I can get perfectly smooth and keen edges off Jnats or synthetics with water, the key is to use the right amount of pressure when doing the finishing strokes.

I use water with my Arkansas bench stones too. At this juncture, I simply don't want to deal with the mess that comes with oil - I get enough of that at work. The only thing I use is a little shave lather at the tail end when I want to slick things up. Keeps everything nice and clean.

That said, I think it's important to understand what the difference is between a poor lubricant like water and something a bit more viscous, like oil, glycerin, or even shave lather.

I think oil would work just as well with any stone, provided (at least with synthetics) that it isn't formulated such that oil would cause a degradation of the hone. With naturals, most* aren't porous enough for oil to seep in too deep and a good soaking can usually clean it off. But that doesn't mean that I'm about to start oiling up all my stones. Like you said, for many it's just not necessary even if it is a viable option.

I use plain water on all my synthetics, Coticules and Eschers. I use Smiths honing solution or water on my slate hones and Chinese hones and all the above plus oil on my Arkansas hones (not at the same time, lol)

Originally Posted by Steve56

Very true Stefan,

But I wish you'd tell those guys in Japan that! I've had to soak many a jnat in isopropyl alcohol overnight to get rid of whatever that vile smelling yellow honing oil is that they sometimes use. Fortunately it does not seem to penetrate the stone that much and usually an overnight soak does it. A wooden dais soaked with it is however, another story.

Cheers, Steve

I know what you mean, I am dealing with one like that, a true stinker.

Originally Posted by rodb

I use plain water on all my synthetics, Coticules and Eschers. I use Smiths honing solution or water on my slate hones and Chinese hones and all the above plus oil on my Arkansas hones (not at the same time, lol)

On the recommendation of a friend I gave the Smith's Honing Solution a go on my Zulu. I found it added a slickness so I decided to play. Instead of using the SHS when I was ready for the last strokes I sprayed the Zulu with some Windex and found a nice slickness. My 'Theory' is that the slickness allows for less pressure while making the stroke. Just a Theory.

Originally Posted by cudarunner

On the recommendation of a friend I gave the Smith's Honing Solution a go on my Zulu. I found it added a slickness so I decided to play. Instead of using the SHS when I was ready for the last strokes I sprayed the Zulu with some Windex and found a nice slickness. My 'Theory' is that the slickness allows for less pressure while making the stroke. Just a Theory.

You are adding surfactant to the stone and that decreases the surface tension and capillary action, which equals less pressure between the hone and the bevel. You have the right explanation there.

Originally Posted by mainaman

You are adding surfactant to the stone and that decreases the surface tension and capillary action, which equals less pressure between the hone and the bevel. You have the right explanation there.

Thanks Stefan, sometimes I get things right!

I figure most people have a spray bottle of glass cleaner on hand and it seemed to do the same job as the Honing Solution.