Thread: Question about honing with natural stones

It is rough, how long have you shaved with a straight? Unless you have the skills it hard for you to know what a good edge is in the beginning, also I don't think young hurts but I,m sure it probably doesn't help either it's in the hands of the guy weilding the razor. I don't know Gugi,s edge, but we have some guys here who can hone, good luck. Tc

As a matter of a fact we have a guy in Washington if your near him in the southeast he could evaluate your edges for you

Here it is after stropping, I tried to get the same section of the blade. Not sure why the lighting is completely different.


I do agree though, I think I have some more work to do

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

It is rough, how long have you shaved with a straight? Unless you have the skills it hard for you to know what a good edge is in the beginning, also I don't think young hurts but I,m sure it probably doesn't help either it's in the hands of the guy weilding the razor. I don't know Gugi,s edge, but we have some guys here who can hone, good luck. Tc

As a matter of a fact we have a guy in Washington if your near him in the southeast he could evaluate your edges for you

I'm in western Washington, Everett specifically. Southeast is hours away. Only been shaving with a straight for a month, so you are correct, my opinion is suspect.

So I went back to the finishing stones and did the marker test, the honing is definitely reaching the edge along the entire length. I did 100 laps on the surgical black using very light pressure, 40 laps on the surgical black using the weight of the razor, then 100 laps on the translucent using the weight of the razor. Attached is a picture of either side. I'm not sure what the rough area is back from the bevel on one of the pics, but am I correct in assuming that it shouldn't really affect the shave?





Why is the edge bright in the second picture? Wire edge?

Off to try the shave test, will report back after.

Note about Gugi's honing: His edge puts mine to shame under the scope, he did an excellent job, I hope I didn't portray it otherwise.

It is not unusual for a new shaver to damage an edge with the first stropping. The edge that Gugi put on the other razor, may have been wiped with the first stropping. Stropping can take some time perfect, and as much as a year to get to a point where you are, ”consistently” improving an edge by stropping.

The Ark bevel needs a lot of refining. It is difficult to tell from the photo, but my guess, based on your post, and that the edge is not straight, is that the bevel, was not fully set on the lowest grit stone. That is what you are seeing at the edge.

While you can set a bevel, make a razor shave ready and maintain it with Arks exclusively, it is much easier to learn to hone on synthetic stones.

Once you have mastered honing and understand the process, what you are seeing and how to overcome issues, then switch to Naturals. You can also hone on synthetics and finish on Naturals.
It is not unusual for a new shaver to damage an edge with the first stropping. The edge that Gugi put on the other razor, may have been wiped with the first stropping. Stropping can take some time perfect, and as much as a year to get to a point where you are, ”consistently” improving an edge by stropping.

The Ark bevel needs a lot of refining. It is difficult to tell from the photo, but my guess, based on your post, and that the edge is not straight, is that the bevel, was not fully set on the lowest grit stone. That is what you are seeing at the edge.

While you can set a bevel, make a razor shave ready and maintain it with Arks exclusively, it is much easier to learn to hone on synthetic stones.

Once you have mastered honing and understand the process, what you are seeing and how to overcome issues, then switch to Naturals. You can also hone on synthetics and finish on Naturals.

That is a weird double post, never seen that before!

I haven't stropped the other razor, so i am still confident in its edge being his design.

I understand learning on synthetics is easier, but these are what i have had for a while, so for now I am going to continue to try and learn on them. I think you are probably correct though, i will go back to the soft stone and try to get the bevel fully set tomorrow or the next day.

Well, setting the bevel is 80 percent of honing, you can buy a 1k King for $20, and a Naniwia Economy for $25.

Or you can set it on a Lapped Washita. Make sure all your stones are lapped, arks are lapped with lose Silicon Carbide.

Once you set the bevel you can polish on your arks. Look up the Ark threads on lapping and burnishing your Arks.

You should also read the first 3 threads in the Honing Forum, a lot of good info there, some applies to synthetics, but a lot is similar for a natural progression.

I think Arkansas stones are probably the easiest naturals to learn on. All things considered they're about as uniform as you're gona get from a natural rock. And it's a simple 3 stone progression.

Looks like that edge needs more time on the soft to set the bevel. That's what the shiny bright spot you're seeing at the very edge is. The bevels aren't quite meeting. I'd wager if you flip the edge up and look directly down at the apex of the bevel, you'll see shiny flat spots. So it needs to go back to the soft stone.

The rough area towards the back is one of 2 things - either the bevel was set at a lower angle and you managed to raise it somehow, or at some point during your honing you applied enough pressure to flex the blade at the shoulder where the bevel begins. As your pressure lightens up, the edge drops back toward the stone, but it lifts that scored area back away from the hone so it stays rough. I'd wager you were applying a bit more pressure than you should've been, perhaps on the soft stone, which can lead to a lot of chasing your tail.

Stop counting strokes. Especially with naturals. They abrade steel much slower than synthetics. Just stop every 20 or 30 strokes and assess your edge. Keep going until it stops improving, then move on to the next stone. You can use a little pressure on the soft Ark, but you want to lighten up and be using weight of the blade only before moving on to the Hard stone. With the hard stone, you can also use a little pressure (less than the soft!) and should be using weight of the blade only by the time you're ready to move on. For the finisher, I've only ever used very light pressure if any, and most strokes by far are weight of blade only.

Over-honing isn't something you're likely to run into. Especially with a slow cutting natural. It take a LOT of perfect strokes to max out a stone & blade to the point it would be 'overhoned.' I did 2,000 rounds on a coticule, all that did was set the bevel and make my arm tired.

To help you learn how much pressure you should be finishing with, try this:



And since you're using naturals, this is the stroke I use:



I know that's a coticule, a little bit different stone, but the operating theory is the same. I only count to ensure that I have done the same number on either side of the blade. Really helps expedite things when using a natural stone. Just remember to work in 10-20 normal X strokes every now and again to ensure the edge trailing strokes don't start to make any burrs or foiling at he edge.

I definitely raised the angle, i am honing with 1 layer of tape. I will watch the videos when i get home tonight, and i will attempt to reset the bevel as well

Got a little over zealous and forgot to watch the videos first. Spent over 2 hours on the stones, i believe i have the bevel set, it will crop my arm hair now mid way up the follicle. No pictures unfortunately as my camera is refusing to focus