Thread: Question about honing with natural stones

Hi guys, new to the forum, have a few questions about honing using natural stones. I already had soft, hard, and surgical black Arkansas stones that I use knife honing. I picked up a translucent stone to complete my set a few weeks ago after I got a razor for Christmas. The razor in question is the infamous gold dollar. I have since picked up a decent razor for shaving, but am practicing honing with the gold dollar. I also have a pocket microscope, but I don't have a jig set up, so no pictures yet.

After reading about the gold dollar on here and its questionable quality, also seeing the magnified picture of the edge on it out of the box, I decided to reset the bevel and take it through the stones to clean it up.

I set the bevel on the soft Arkansas, did 20-30 x-strokes (both sides) on the hard Arkansas using only the weight of the razor, then went to the surgical black to finish. It seemed no matter how many strokes I did, I couldn't get out the marks from the hard Arkansas. After multiple times on the black stone, I decided to try some extra pressure. I know that goes against advice, but I figured its a gold dollar, and if it messed it up, I could go back to square one and get back to where I was without much work. I did two medium-hard pressure strokes and looked at the edge. It looked like either the edge had folded over, or it hadn't quite contacted the entire edge after two strokes. Figuring I was already started, I decided to finish and completed 10 firm pressure strokes on both sides with the black stone. When I looked at the edge, I was surprised to find it was polished well, the marks from the hard stone were gone, and the edge looked better than I had managed previously. I completed honing with 10 light x-strokes on each side on the black stone, and 10 light x-strokes on the translucent. Its the best edge I have achieved so far, and I have had no issues shaving with edges I have achieved previously.

Is it normal for natural stones to need more pressure on the finishing stones? I'm wondering if I got lucky or if it is a technique I can utilize in the future.

Always keep in mind that every razor is approached differently, an individual assessment is done on each. Your next razor or even refreshing the ones you have will be different. Having a progression that worked for you on this razor is a good thing. Your next razor or refresh may not need this total progression.

Evaluate your next razor, before putting it to stone. Approach that razor based on "it's" needs.
Your next refresh on the razor your happy with, would start with the finisher that gave you good results on that razor. A "few" light passes then assess the result after stropping.

Are you using water or oil? Blacks and trannies will remove some metal with no liquid but not for very long. They can clog up with swarf and then become less effective.

You set a bevel on a factory gold dollar with a soft arkansas? When did you start setting it at Christmas?

I find arkansas were very slow. Even the soft and 20-30 x strokes on the hard wouldn't be enough for me. When Arkansas honing even the finishing stage can be hundreds of strokes long.

I would say keep at it a bit longer. Do more strokes and make sure the bevel is set well.

I've set many bevel on GD out of the box with a diamond plate. Can't imagine using a soft arkansas to do that unless the bevel had been set previously by someone.

By the way congrats on the successful shave. It can only get better with practice.

Arkansas stones are known to need more pressure to work effectively. Trying to use the same pressure on other finisher would most likely results in a poor edge. This has been true in my limited experience.

Originally Posted by kelbro

Are you using water or oil? Blacks and trannies will remove some metal with no liquid but not for very long. They can clog up with swarf and then become less effective.

Sorry, forgot to mention that, using Nortons honing oil

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

You set a bevel on a factory gold dollar with a soft arkansas? When did you start setting it at Christmas?

I find arkansas were very slow. Even the soft and 20-30 x strokes on the hard wouldn't be enough for me. When Arkansas honing even the finishing stage can be hundreds of strokes long.

I would say keep at it a bit longer. Do more strokes and make sure the bevel is set well.

I've set many bevel on GD out of the box with a diamond plate. Can't imagine using a soft arkansas to do that unless the bevel had been set previously by someone.

By the way congrats on the successful shave. It can only get better with practice.

Arkansas stones are known to need more pressure to work effectively. Trying to use the same pressure on other finisher would most likely results in a poor edge. This has been true in my limited experience.

I used one of the techniques in Lynns video, using circular motions on the soft Arkansas and a fair amount of pressure. It created a significant amount of swarf, and actually didn't take too long. I may have got a razor that is on the better end of their manufacturing tolerance though.

I appreciate the info on finishing on the Arkansas stones, i have been looking for that, but everything I've read has been about synthetics, and in those cases all advice has been that hundreds of strokes will result in over honing or is completely unnecessary. I will up my stroke count on the finishers significantly.

So, first with naturals, they are all different and will perform differently, with Arks you do need more pressure than synthetic stones, ease off on pressure for your finish strokes.

Honing Gold Dollars, typically they are not ground well and quite a bit of steel needs removing. The steel is very hard and using a diamond plate to re grind the bevel angle is normal.

I too am curious that you set the bevel in 20-30 laps on a new Gold Dollar with a Soft Ark, unless it had been honed?

Make sure you are honing to the edge, ink the bevel and do a couple laps on the Translucent, and see if you are removing ink all the way to the edge. If you are, you are very lucky.

There is much written on honing with Arks, hard fine arks can be improved by lapping and burnishing the stone face. Check the Hones forum.

Smith’s Honing Solution and or Ballistol and water works well on Arks, and washes off with water.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I too am curious that you set the bevel in 20-30 laps on a new Gold Dollar with a Soft Ark, unless it had been honed?

I read it that way at first too. Re-reading it, It looks like he set the bevel and then did 20-30 laps on the hard.

Im sorry, there is a misunderstanding here, i did not set the bevel with 20-30 strokes, that is what i did on the hard stone. I don't know how many strokes i used on the soft stone, but that is what i set the bevel on.

I will try to do the magic marker test this week some time, just have to make some time in the evening.

One question about the gold dollar, is it supposed to have a slight smile? I'm wondering if that's normal or if they really just don't care what their razors look like in that regard.

Originally Posted by TheSatch

Im sorry, there is a misunderstanding here, i did not set the bevel with 20-30 strokes, that is what i did on the hard stone. I don't know how many strokes i used on the soft stone, but that is what i set the bevel on.

I will try to do the magic marker test this week some time, just have to make some time in the evening.

One question about the gold dollar, is it supposed to have a slight smile? I'm wondering if that's normal or if they really just don't care what their razors look like in that regard.

Yes most have a slight smile requiring a skewed x stroke or rolling x.

Yes, the grinds are wonky, the stabilizers too thick, as are the spines. They are just cranked out razors. The steel is good though and with some work they can be made to shave, then you just have to, deal with the clunky scales.

I don’t think the smiles are intentional, you can grid them flat or as said keep the smile and use a rolling X stroke.

There are folks making these repairs and reselling them honed/ shave ready. Did you buy one of these or a new in the box one?

Post a photo of the razor.