Thread: Noob + naniwa stones = love. or not?

Originally Posted by Speedster

If you have viewed Glen's "Naniwa Honing" Parts I, II, and III on YT, he suggests soaking the SS variety for a few minutes before honing to "let them stabilize." We are not talking about keeping them in a well here like with his King stone, but just putting the next stone in the progression in some water while honing on the current stone. So the soak time is really just a few minutes, like < 10. I also do as he does and lap each stone with 5 or so figure 8's before my blade hits the stone. This keeps each hone flat as a matter of practice.

Have tried both ways:
1) letting each stone sit for 10 minutes under slow running warmish water before using
2) spraying (tried still water, then again thermal water)

Made no visible difference. These naniwa stones shouldn't be very porous, for instance the dry stone weighs about the same +/-1 gram compared to one that's been sitting in water for 10 minutes. So it doesn't absorb water, more likely it just sits on the surface. Guess the difference is very subtle, much too subtle for a noob such as myself to spot.

From your 2nd 12k session, it seems you still have an unset bevel. Those edge pics are excellent but won't reveal this type of issue.

It's challenging to be tackling intermediate edge issues with beginner skills. The first edges I honed were maintenance refreshes only and under a mentor's guidance. It wasn't until I had been honing for some time after that before I found myself using a 1k stone to remove dings.

If you update your Settings Profile with an approximate location, maybe someone will be able to help you directly.

Looks like the bevel is not set from those pictures. Having the bevel set correctly at 1k is imperative. Lynn has a video on setting the bevel in the beginner section. Looks like you have a lot of very good stones there!! Once you learn how to use them accordingly you'll strike gold, guaranteed!!
Your on the right track, just need a little fine tuning.

You should be able to shave with your razor after the 1K hone. Search for the thread 1K shave on this forum.

I find Naniwa hones like to be refreshed more frequently that Shapton hones for example. It may be me, but that was my finding. To refresh your hones, watch Gssixgun's videos on how to do it, including how to use the Naniwa SS hones to their best potential.

Pressure/torque is helpful when honing, but I have found that some hollow ground blades will flex when torquing causing the very edge to flex up off the hone and the end result is that you just hone away steel while the edge remains dull. Yes, if you keep the exact same torque amount on the razor, the edge will eventually get honed, but it can take a long time and while you may be better at it than me, I cannot keep the torque to the exact same amount, lap after lap. I have a Boker full bellied hollow that is so thin, it's like tin foil. I cannot use *any* torque or pressure when honing it.... I need to use just the weight of the blade and then she comes together.

All this leads back to the 1K hone... if it's not shaving sharp off the 1K hone, there is zero point in going up in grit as these hones simply polish, not sharpen. You can hone the razor sharp by keeping at it on a finer hone, but if you have your 1K, it's so much faster. Use electrical tape on the spine.... sometimes we tend to use too much pressure on the spine while trying to get a razor sharp and that simply results in wearing away the spine while the edge remains dull.... The tape protects the spine and you can see if you are using too much pressure because the tape is being ground away if you are. I used to be heavy on the spine, and leaning on that spine without the tape can end up ruining the razor.

A quick word on HHT tests. They don't work crap for me. Some gents can use them to gauge a razors sharpness, but if they used *my* hair, they would never get the edge to pass the HHT test. And therein lies the problem. The hair used varies from honer to honer, so there is no correlation between them. A rough ground edge off a bench grinder could be made to pass the HHT test with the right hair. The hair wedges into a groove in the grind and is so brittle it just falls apart. The HHT can be used to gauge your edge if you do it consistently and learn what it means to YOU, but it is NOT a valid test to prove a razor is sharp and smooth, only a shave test does that. If a razor shaves badly but passes the HHT test, clearly it is NOT passing the shave test.

And sometimes, if you just can't seem to get going..... STOP. Take a breather, leave it for a few days, come back with fresh eyes another day and don't be afraid to ask someone else for help. It happened to me when after an extended lay off from straight shaving (medical issues.... I ended up using a DE razor for a few years). I grabbed one of my favourite straights and starting to hone it up, but it wasn't getting better.... frustrating when I used to be able to do it easy before. I watched the bevel and it started going wonky so I stopped, packed up the razor and sent to someone else who hones daily. I got a call a few days later and it was ready for use. I asked him how far off it was and he replied that it was really close... it just needed a little bit of light honing and it was great. Next time, I had no problems with it, so it was just my muscle memory..... a bit rusty you could say.

I do not have a Ti or a Dovo razor, but they all look full hollow ground to me, so the first two things that come to mind is that you might be using too much torque, or perhaps the hones need a quick refresh.... In either case, arm hair should be mowed down after just the 1K, if it's not, the bevel still needs work until it does.


Regards

Christian

Phew! That's a mouthful! Thanks El Capiton!!

Thank you for the input, much appreciated. It is true that all 3 blades are "full hollow".

After another 40 x-pattern passes on each stone, with slightly more pressure on the 1k and 3k, I've managed to get it to this:



It still won't cut a hanging hair like the Spartacus does. It shaves dry and wet hair off the hand right after the 1K and it still gives a decent shave as it is now. But it just doesn't feel as it did last year out of the box plus I have this super-sensitive skin on my neck and I get a rash there I wasn't getting some 6 months ago from his blade. I also don't get the rash from the Spartacus blade which is almost new. So I'm kind of determined to work on this until I get it right otherwise it defeats the point for me to use a straight razor if it will vandalize the skin.

it's hard to learn to hone from videos alone JMHO so if you can get with a member close by ( maybe reveal where you live) there might be someone to help you. can't emphasize the importance of the bevel set as stated before.

Originally Posted by tintin

it's hard to learn to hone from videos alone JMHO so if you can get with a member close by ( maybe reveal where you live) there might be someone to help you. can't emphasize the importance of the bevel set as stated before.

I live in europe don't think there's anyone here near me.

Just had a shave with the dovo... it was real bad and unpleasant. What I managed to do with the dovo WTG + XTG + ATG I did with the TI eagle on the other half of the face with a single pass WTG, without the rash under the chin. When I do a WTG + XTG with the TI I get a nearly perfect shave. Even if this TI eagle is not in its original condition anymore, it used to be awesome in the first weeks. I guess maybe my expectations are just too high for this dovo razor. Maybe its just lower quality, I don't know...will chill for a few days and give it another go, if I still can't manage to hone it well enough I'll just get another TI and forget other brands for good.

Originally Posted by Speedster

If you have viewed Glen's "Naniwa Honing" Parts I, II, and III on YT, he suggests soaking the SS variety for a few minutes before honing to "let them stabilize." We are not talking about keeping them in a well here like with his King stone, but just putting the next stone in the progression in some water while honing on the current stone. So the soak time is really just a few minutes, like < 10. I also do as he does and lap each stone with 5 or so figure 8's before my blade hits the stone. This keeps each hone flat as a matter of practice.

Yup, was aware of how Glen does soak his SS Naniwas but I just spray and hone which seems to work too. Rarely do I lap my Naniwas after the first time as I use exclusively X strokes and watch the water move up the blade as I go. I just clean my Naniwas with a small stone that came with them, Nagura? possibly.

This is what happens when you learn to hone on your own, you just find a way that works for you. Not that my way of doing it is right but it works for me.

Bob

I've got a Dovo Ebenholz and Flowing that both shave equally as well as my TI when they are properly honed. Solingen steel is excellent stuff and fairly easy to hone actually.

Take a break and come back to the Dovo later. I myself am having issues honing a custom American razor that is giving me fits. Always microchips during the shave test. Out of 14 or so blades, it's the only one I'm having any sort of issues honing. After a third attempt yesterday, I decided to let it sit for a while.