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Thread: Noob + naniwa stones = love. or not?

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    Cool Noob + naniwa stones = love. or not?

    Hey everyone,

    I'm pretty new to straight razors, discovered some 8 months ago that I get a much smoother shave with a straight razor rather than off those mach 3 cartridges, so I started investing in some good razors, hones, strops and so on. Right now I have two razors made by thiers issard - a spartacus and an eagle, and a dovo renaissance. I also have 4 naniwa stones - 1k, 3k, 8k and 12k, and 4 strops of various leather types, the finest being that wide russian leather strop made by dovo.

    All went good so far, never got even the smallest nick, the entire ritual is relaxing and the skin feels great after shaving. I used to get really this really bad rash after shaving with them gillettes, I am happy to be over that. I do however suck at honing. Here's what happened:
    About 2 weeks ago I found this barely visible dent in the dovo, like a quarter of a millimeter, hardly visible with the naked eye, so I figured I must have touched the harder leather at the end of the strop when stropping... anyway, figured I might try to fix it: soaked all naniwas in luke-warm water, started with the 1k, gave it 30 passes (these naniwas are wide enough to work with the whole blade without having to do the x pattern) on each side, then moved on to 3k, then 8k and 12k. I never apply too much pressure. I always apply duct tape to the spine to protect it. I am not sure how I am supposed to "let the weight of the blade do the job" because if I don't at least apply 20-30grams of pressure (used an electronic scale for "tuning") to the blade it just doesn't sit properly on the hone, so that would result in an uneven finish. I kind of guide it with one finger at the tip and two fingers at the tang.

    That little dent is no longer visible but I can tell/feel the razor doesn't cut as it did 7 months ago when I got it. Which is quite uncool considering the closest straight razor restoration shop I'd trust is like 3000kms away so I'd have to DHL the razors in and wait for 2 weeks to get them back. The other shops nearby are more likely suitable for axes and such, definitely not straight razors.

    The dovo does not pass "the hanging hair" test, and the TI eagle also doesn't anymore. The spartacus still does, I haven't tried messing with it and also didn't use it that much.

    The scarier part is the thought that if i can't seem to be able to work with the dovo, i won't be able to do the eagle which is the one i like best and use 2 times each week. The TI eagle is by far the most awesome straight razor I've ever tried, and I've tried like 20 of them in the $200-$500 range. Also having to do the spartacus at some point will be a disaster also because of the irregular spine design.

    So I'd appreciate any tips and pointers y'all can share.
    Last edited by alexc81; 02-09-2017 at 10:43 PM. Reason: spelling

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    You may have a burr, go back to the 12k and do some x strokes.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth Speedster's Avatar
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    I'm an intermediate honer at best, but I will say I do love the Naniwa SS better than the Norton 4/8k I started of with. However, I received one-on-one mentoring from a honemeister which really helped with my technique. He recommended 3M Super 88 tape; I've never seen anyone here espouse the use of duct tape, FWIW. Also, even if you are using a full-size 3" hone, you still want to use x-strokes for the most part (check out Gssixgun's Naniwa honing videos on YouTube). Lastly, do you have an LED loupe? I would suggest buying one (40x most common) off of Amazon for less than $10. Without proper magnification, you can not really tell what the edge is doing.

    Also, are you doing TNT tests before you move off of the 1k stone? For your other razors that have no dings, I was told you can typically start 2 stones back for refreshing the edge. So, if you finish on a 12k, try starting with the 8k (you are skipping the 10k that you don't own here) to hone up your slightly dull razors.

    I'm not sure where "the weight of the blade" thing started, as I totally disagree with the phrase. I would say what these folks mean is use the very lightest pressure you can to keep the blade flat on the hones while stroking. Many folks (including myself) started off using too much pressure as noobs. These edges are delicate and too much pressure is a bad thing.
    Last edited by Speedster; 02-09-2017 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Weight of blade comment added
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    I have this LED digital microscope I use for PCB inspection, I think it doesn't have that much of a zoom level, although it's more powerful than a loupe I don't see anything wrong in the edge of the blade - just scratches. I just ordered a 250x microscope to check it out in more detail. I'll go play with the 12k some more this evening and see what happens. I would rather not use the TNT test as thiers issard advise against it in their leaflets. I know I am doing the hair test right.

    That "weight of the blade" thing doesn't sound right to me either, despite some 1 gazillion experts mentioning that's the way to go. the blade just doesn't rest properly on the stone on its own, and it makes perfect sense because of its shape and center of weight, its just physics. so I always apply some very light pressure (like i said, grams) to keep it flat on the stone.
    Last edited by alexc81; 02-09-2017 at 06:43 PM.

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    There's a whole bunch of things going on here.

    Being as new to honing as you are I would suggest not going to a 1k. Rather start at the other end of the spectrum. More grit = more damage in unexperienced hands.

    Maybe try some electrical tape? Duct tape is not too common but I guess if you want to use it.

    Do x strokes regardless of hone width.

    If any of those blades have a slight smile a rolling or 45degree x stroke should be used or else you will have uneven wear and never get all parts of the blade to shave well.

    Have you honed a razor before from the bevel correcting up?

    There are a lot of good threads about bevel setting. I would think the bevel is probably not set... but that's everyone's first guess around here.


    Keep us posted.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth Speedster's Avatar
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    Well, as we say YMMV, since I never bother with HHT tests and rely heavily on the TNT for all of my blades even for my T-I Oakwing. Sounds like you still have an unset bevel; a TNT will have little to no drag/bite into a nail if this is the case. Alternatively, try the TPT at this stage. I would recommend returning to the 1k or 3k until you can at least tree-top arm hair (another test I use before proceed to polish the edge).

    You definitely have enough magnification to check your edge with a microscope. Loupes for me tend to be more easily accessible while honing.
    Last edited by Speedster; 02-09-2017 at 06:44 PM. Reason: removed redundancy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedster View Post
    I'm not sure where "the weight of the blade" thing started, as I totally disagree with the phrase. I would say what these folks mean is use the very lightest pressure you can to keep the blade flat on the hones while stroking. Many folks (including myself) started off using too much pressure as noobs. These edges are delicate and too much pressure is a bad thing.
    Agreed, sharpening requires more pressure.. the final polishing not so much. Knowing when and how much pressure to use is what I and many others have had trouble with in the past.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    All good advice so far. It may not be a good idea to soak Naniwa hones, just spray and hone usually. Naniwa hones should be lapped flat at least before first use. You really might find it easier to use electrical tape instead of duct tape.

    Bob
    Life is a terminal illness in the end

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    Ditched the duct tape and switched to electrical tape.

    Pics:

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    And more pics after another 30 x-pattern passes on the 12k, still not cutting the hair


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    Can't seem to get more resolution our of this scope

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobH View Post
    All good advice so far. It may not be a good idea to soak Naniwa hones, just spray and hone usually. Naniwa hones should be lapped flat at least before first use. You really might find it easier to use electrical tape instead of duct tape.

    Bob
    If you have viewed Glen's "Naniwa Honing" Parts I, II, and III on YT, he suggests soaking the SS variety for a few minutes before honing to "let them stabilize." We are not talking about keeping them in a well here like with his King stone, but just putting the next stone in the progression in some water while honing on the current stone. So the soak time is really just a few minutes, like < 10. I also do as he does and lap each stone with 5 or so figure 8's before my blade hits the stone. This keeps each hone flat as a matter of practice.
    --Mark

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