Thread: Coticule chronicles

There was some brief discussion in another thread about using a coticule dry, and this got me thinking... I'm playing around with different ways of using my coticule to finish razors to see if I can improve the edges I'm getting.

I thought I'd start a thread to find out what other methods you guys have tried, and what your impressions are.

Up until yesterday, I was using my coticule as a finishing hone after either the Belgian blue or Norton 4/8K. I was using it in the typical way, spritzed with water. These edges shave smoothly. They don't usually do well on the hanging hair test. The hair splits and peels rather than cutting.

The barber manual that Scott (honedright) recently posted says that a Belgian hone can be used dry, wet or with lather. (Interestingly, it doesn't mention slurry at all in connection with Belgian hones.) It also describes a yellow stone with a slate backing that must be what we call a coticule now. This it says can be used either dry or wet.

Another member mentioned that he had good results using his coticule dry, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Last night I took a Wapienica that needed a touch up and did about 50 laps on my tiny 4x1.5" coticule. I tried a hanging hair test afterward, and it snipped the hairs cleanly. It was about the best result on a HHT I can recall getting. I was interested to see how it would shave.

The shave this morning was OK, but it didn't feel as smooth as the edge from the wet coticule. My guess is that the edge from the dry hone wasn't quite as fine--it had more teeth, so it did better on the HHT.

This evening I honed up two razors: a Dovo that's been a little reluctant to reach fighting trim, and the same Wapienica. I finished the Dovo on the dry coticule and got a similar result--passing the HHT with flying colors. For the Wapienica, I slathered the coticule with lather and did about 50 laps. On this razor, the edge was more like the one I get from the coticule with plain water. The hairs would split and peel back but not cut.

I then stropped both razors on my new Tony Miller latigo/horsehide combo. The Dovo's edge didn't seem to do quite as well on the HHT after that. The hairs still cut, but not as cleanly. It's possible that I messed it up a little, or maybe the stropping is smoothing the edge somewhat. The Wapienica's performance on the HHT improved radically. The two razors now handle the HHT about the same.

I have no idea what any of this means; I'll see how things go in the morning.

Has anybody else tried anything like this? What were your results?

I'm curious about all of this because I've never had luck using lather on hones to this point. When I put it on a barber hone it always seems to mess things up for some reason. But the barber manuals and hone instructions say that the progression of dry, wet and lather will give you an increasingly fine edge.

Anyway, I'll post my impressions after my shave-test tomorrow...

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

But the barber manuals and hone instructions say that the progression of dry, wet and lather will give you an increasingly fine edge.

That's what I found when I was playing around with barber hones and arkansas hones (which I tend to classify as a natural barber hone). But you have to go slower when using water and especially lather because the suction can get too strong and fold the fin.

Ah, maybe that's what I've been doing. I don't think I've been going particularly fast, but I'm probably using about the same speed that I would normally use... I'll have to get out my barber hones and try again, slowing things down this time...

Josh

Well, I'm going to have to redo the test before I can post my impressions. Today I used a soap instead of the cream I had been using, and I think I must be alergic to it. My face was burning badly before I even started shaving...

The edges seemed to perform pretty well. The Dovo was a huge improvement over the previous edge, which I'd finished on chromium oxide. The Wapienica didn't seem any better than the edge finished on the wet coticule. But by the time I started using it, the soap was really getting to me.

It did take down the stubble on my chin better than any edge I've used before, but I think that's because of some other changes I've made in my technique...

Josh

Hi Josh

It was me that had the "eureka" moment with the dry coticule. It worked a treat on my chunky near-wedge, really made the difference from a poor shaver to a great one. It is still not 100% - but I think that will only be more passes on the dry to bring it up.

I also tried it on a weyersbburg 7/8s that was sticky, though it shaved, and that also has improved dramatically. I do think that both razors need a lot more time on the stone, but they are getting there.

To me the yellow belgian is really turning into a workhorse hone - it can remove metal like fury with a slurry, it smooths out an edge nicely when wet, and polishes to an amazing finish dry. I am of a feeling that one could start with a slurry, and just keep going even after the stone has dried and the slurry is gone, and you would have a great looking edge -though I have yet to try that...

Si

Si,

I'm with you. I grow to love my coticule more every day... This thing is amazing.

The test shave with the Dovo today was spectacular. This thing has turned into a whisker killing machine--probably the best edge I've honed to date.

After finishing it on the dry coticule, I've given it some extra stropping--maybe a few hundred laps, alternating between the latigo and horsehide sides of my new Tony Miller Heirloom #2. That has really smoothed out the edge.

I'm thinking the dry coticule leaves a slightly toothier edge that cuts really well but needs a little more smoothing.

Since I didn't even reach for the Wapienica today, I'm not sure whether the edge now is better than what I'd get if I used the coticule wet or with lather and then gave it the same stropping treatment. Maybe tomorrow I'll just use the Wapi and see how it compares.

Josh

Well I just got off a blue / yellow Belgian progression on a couple razors and the results are fantastic. I've been a norton user for sometime now and never gave much thought to the Belgian stones until a couple weeks ago when I had a couple conversations with Howard and Josh.

I have a 6/8 clauss that was about as shave ready as I can get it with a norton, then noticed a very very small chip on the edge. Having just received a belgian blue, yellow coticule and dmt 1200 from Howard I decided to tackle this one first.

I started on the dmt and with very even pressure I worked out the chip and reset the bevel in about 35-40 laps. Then moved to the blue with a heavy slurry, did about 50 laps and then to the coticule for 50 laps with slurry, and about 10 without. Start to finish about 15-20 minutes to get shave ready.

The result is about the sharpest edge I have yet to achieve to date. These stones truely work wonders. Next will be experimentation with the dry coticule, adn I'll let you guys knwo how it goes. I'm resisting trying this on the Clauss because I have such a great edge now.

Second raozr... a friend just gave me a Wheat Berry Sculpted 5/8 Thiers-Issard, new from classicshaving to hone for him. I have to say this razor came decently sharp but no where near shave ready. I did the same blue/yellow progression (excluding the dmt) and voila...the same perfect edge. This razor took me about 10 minutes to hone...incredible.

Josh, Howard...thanks again for the advice...I may be a Belgian convert now.

Originally Posted by Sunsi

I am of a feeling that one could start with a slurry, and just keep going even after the stone has dried and the slurry is gone, and you would have a great looking edge -though I have yet to try that...

Si

Si,

Please share your results when you try it.

I would bet the edge would not shave well, based on my experience. I'll tell you why I think this happens - because as the honing progresses, water is lost and the slurry becomes thick and sticky, and actually dulls the edge.

But I would love to hear from more people and their methodology and results. I am trying to learn more

Cheers
Ivo

The guy who holds the Guinness World Record for Fastest Shave with a Double Bit Axe knows a fair bit about what it takes to make an edge sharp. He is a big advocate of dry honing. I have dry honed with Arkansas stones and it works pretty well. I've studied the photos Tim Zowada took of the dry vs. wet honed coticules. Clearly the dry honed razor is shinier and has fewer scratches than the wet honed razor. People who have tried both methods with the coticules have reported fast removal of steel with the dry method but better shaves with the wet method.

The Belgians say that it's the slurry which does the honing. They advocate a milk-consistency slurry. Certainly you can abrade the steel against the dry stone and get a good polish. Look at the consistency of the particles and the size of the particles of the coticule vs. the other stones. The coticule is very consistent in particle size and height off of the stone body. Dry honing works. BUT, is that the whole story?

Apparently the polished edge from the dry honing doesn't cut whiskers as well as the wet honed edge. Why? I think it's because of the scratches in the steel making teeth on the edge of the blade which grab the whiskers and then slice them off. Polished edges just don't have the tooth. I say "teeth" but they're not really very coarse and in fact are very fine. "Polish" is also a very relative term. The strop aligns those teeth and I think that's why I've come to use natural leather. Barbers have recommended that to me and I've tried it and it works.

Ok, to add a little more to the "Coticule Chronicles"....

I spent a little while tonight experimenting with a dry coticule. Had some time contrainsts so my first thought was to grab a couple decent edge shavers that could just use a little touch up, one 6/8 Gold Bug and a 7/8 Friodur. I took them both to the coticule...gold bug 30 laps on a wet no slurry surface...and the friodor on a dry surface.

While this was on the first of many experiments to come, the edge appears to be considerably sharper through a variety of test HHT TPT. I've never been one for the HHT, but I'll have to wait to shave test at this point.

Josh I agree the .5 micro leaves too smooth of an edge. My beard is coarse and using the .5 wears away the teeth I need for a smooth shave. I've used 1m to finish but I think now I may substitute the coticule for the paste.

Well the real test comes tomorrow morning. Will keep you all posted.