Thread: Coticule chronicles

I think Ivo is right on. When I first got my coticule, I was using it with a fairly thick slurry, and the edges shaved very poorly. I found that after using the slurry I had to go back to the Belgian blue before I could get the edge to polish properly on the no-slurry coticule.

Now I don't bother with the slurry on the yellow at all. If I need to grind out a chip, which the slurry excels at, I just drop down to my DMT 1200-grit hone. From there I go to the blue and then the yellow with water.

Josh

Originally Posted by izlat

I would bet the edge would not shave well, based on my experience. I'll tell you why I think this happens - because as the honing progresses, water is lost and the slurry becomes thick and sticky, and actually dulls the edge.

More from my experiences / impressions:

• lather does seem to give a finer cut with a slow motion. in my experience the edges with lather feel much better on the face than otherwise (dry, water only, thin slurry, thick slurry, etc.)
• If you start with a dry Belgian (no water at all) with light touch you can get good results. However, I always get even better results if I continue with Chromium, and then leather stropping.
• Bit off-topic: If I use Chromium, I don't use canvass for this particular shave

Cheers
Ivo

I love my coticule. So far it's the only type of stone that I've been working with and it's been an easy but very effective tool. Personally I think that although you can only get a small coticule for the price of a Norton the coticule is much better value for money.

Ok, to add a little more to the "Coticule Chronicles"....

I spent a little while tonight experimenting with a dry coticule. Had some time contrainsts so my first thought was to grab a couple decent edge shavers that could just use a little touch up, one 6/8 Gold Bug and a 7/8 Friodur. I took them both to the coticule...gold bug 30 laps on a wet no slurry surface...and the friodor on a dry surface.

While this was on the first of many experiments to come, the edge appears to be considerably sharper through a variety of test HHT TPT. I've never been one for the HHT, but I'll have to wait to shave test at this point.

Josh I agree the .5 micro leaves too smooth of an edge. My beard is coarse and using the .5 wears away the teeth I need for a smooth shave. I've used 1m to finish but I think now I may substitute the coticule for the paste.

Well the real test comes tomorrow morning. Will keep you all posted.

Just to clarify--the dry-honed edge was "sharper," right?

My theory right now is that the wet/lather edges are truly sharper, but the dry-honed edge has just enough bite (tiny teeth?) to it to make it really effective.

This is based in part on my observation that it's easier to get a good HHT off lower grits. My best HHT edges are off the 4K Norton; the blue Belgian is a close second. Off the 8K Norton the edge still passes but not as impressively. With the coticule, it usually doesn't work at all. The dry-honed edge is the exception.

I'm on my fourth shave with the Dovo, and it keeps improving. The stropping is really bringing this thing up to a new level. Today's shave was the best I think I've ever had.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Just to clarify--the dry-honed edge was "sharper," right?

My theory right now is that the wet/lather edges are truly sharper, but the dry-honed edge has just enough bite (tiny teeth?) to it to make it really effective.

This is based in part on my observation that it's easier to get a good HHT off lower grits. My best HHT edges are off the 4K Norton; the blue Belgian is a close second. Off the 8K Norton the edge still passes but not as impressively. With the coticule, it usually doesn't work at all. The dry-honed edge is the exception.

I'm on my fourth shave with the Dovo, and it keeps improving. The stropping is really bringing this thing up to a new level. Today's shave was the best I think I've ever had.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.

Josh

Right, it was significantly sharper at least by feel after using the dry coticule. This morning was the real test and it far exceeded my expectations. The half shave with the Friodor was much better and smoother than the half with the goldbug polished on the wet coticule.

I think both razors need some more work to bring the edges to where I want them. But the dry coticule definitely makes a world of difference. I'll have to do a few more tests, going back and forth between light slurry/wet/dry adn seeing which combination works best.

I didn't realize that heavy slurry will dull the blade faster ont he coticule than on the blue stone....interesting. Perhaps with a blue/yellow progression, a lightslurry on the cotiucle is as aggresive as I should get.

JR

I actually started a thread about the Yellow Coticule yesterday on B&B but after reading through this one, it might be best to add it here.

This may have already been seen by many of you but I just saw it. In case other people haven't seen it too, Tim Zowada performed an experiment on his razors and a variety of hones here. He magnified the stones and the razors at 200x so you could see the effect on the blade. I haven't bought a magnifying glass but I might have to get one after seeing this. His conclusion was that the Yellow Coticule was 1st and Woodcraft's 12K Chinese was 2nd as far as polishing and removing metal. He used a Blue/Green Escher but didn't specify what he thought of it except that the Coticule performed better. He said some good things about the Translucent Arkansas, which makes me happy because I have one coming in the mail.

Basically, his scientific experiment confirmed the polishing and sharpening attributes of the Yellow Coticule that you all have listed.

For my own use, I'll see if the Translucent Arkansas stone I have coming can produce similar results.

Telly,

several things:

1. I am not sure that we can say the (dry) Coticule performed better for shaving purposes - I don't know if Tim shaved with it. It just looked a certain way, is all I can say
2. This experiment did not really confirm the things you read here - it actually prompted some people to experiment, iirc
3. In case you are not aware - individual variations in the natural stones (Escher, Coticule) do not make this comparison of a (single?) specimen of each anything close to conclusive for our purposes
4. Dr. Moss I believe has a Zowada and is enjoying it very much - but he honed it on a Shapton 30K hone (this one would not have variation, but is much more expensive than the Coticule)

Obviously - YMMV. Experiment for yourself with whatever you have available - if you have the time and interest

Cheers
Ivo

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

I actually started a thread about the Yellow Coticule yesterday on B&B but after reading through this one, it might be best to add it here.

This may have already been seen by many of you but I just saw it. In case other people haven't seen it too, Tim Zowada performed an experiment on his razors and a variety of hones here. He magnified the stones and the razors at 200x so you could see the effect on the blade. I haven't bought a magnifying glass but I might have to get one after seeing this. His conclusion was that the Yellow Coticule was 1st and Woodcraft's 12K Chinese was 2nd as far as polishing and removing metal. He used a Blue/Green Escher but didn't specify what he thought of it except that the Coticule performed better. He said some good things about the Translucent Arkansas, which makes me happy because I have one coming in the mail.

Basically, his scientific experiment confirmed the polishing and sharpening attributes of the Yellow Coticule that you all have listed.

For my own use, I'll see if the Translucent Arkansas stone I have coming can produce similar results.

Tim's photos were what helped me figure out how to use my coticule, actually. I was trying to use it with a slurry and getting terrible results, and then I saw those pictures and it clicked--no slurry, duh.

I agree with Ivo that the pictures are helpful but don't "prove" anything. They show us what's happening to the bevel, not the edge. You can extrapolate from that and guess what the edge might be like, but it's still an educated guess. In my experience, if you have a proper edge on the razor, the photos do correlate with the shave--in other words, the smoother looking bevel will have an edge that shaves better than the rougher looking bevel.

Last night I tried another experiment. My new Dovo is shaving well, but I was wondering if I could smooth it out still more by polishing out any remaining scratches from the coarser grits. So I built a slurry on my coticule and did some laps to try to aggressively polish the edge. Once it seemed like the coarser scratches had been removed, I washed the coticule and did some laps with water and no slurry.

After a little stropping, the razor actually performed quite well on the HHT, which surprised me. The shave this morning was a little more comfortable, and definitely closer. We'll see how it does after a few more stropping sessions. I'm still trying to figure this Dovo out.

In the past, I'd been unable to get a good shaving edge after using the coticule with slurry. I had to go back down to the Belgian blue for some reason. I seem to have ironed out whatever that kink was.

I'm going to have to do some more comparisons between the dry/wet/lather finishing approaches. With this razor I haven't been able to tell for sure if there was a difference or not.

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

In my experience, if you have a proper edge on the razor, the photos do correlate with the shave--in other words, the smoother looking bevel will have an edge that shaves better than the rougher looking bevel.

That was one of the points I was trying to make in Tim's original thread. Guys that are trying to identify sharpness from a photo are tangling two different characteristics together. The scope can show you smoothness to some extent, but unless the razor is really sharp then smoothness is nothing - and a side-on shot with a scope doesn't tell you much about sharpness. I think some of the confusion comes about because the higher grit stones and pastes give you both sharpness and smoothness so it's harder to separate them in our mind.