Thread: Coticule chronicles

+1 to what Ivo said. Blue on blue is great but if not the yellow cotigura on the blue stone will be fine.

I have found this thread really interesting. It confirms my own understanding of what is going on in the process of sharpening a razor.

I see it as a three stage process.

One establish a bevel.
Two establish a toothy edge
Three align the teeth with a strop.

The bevel only needs to be established if you start with a bad blade. These usually come from E bay or on occasion direct from the factory when the quality control fails. Because I do this rarely, I use 1200 grit wet and dry paper laid on a glass surface.

Establishing a toothy edge can be achieved in many ways. But having used a 5"x1.5" Belgian coticule for many years I have always been very satisfied. We all have different facial hair and tolerances to dragging a blade daily over our faces. It is my belief that the coticule establishes the size of teeth that suits "Mr average". However, some men prefer softer or narrower teeth and some prefer larger or stiffer teeth. Recently I have been using a Japanese natural hone and I have found that this hone produces narrower softer teeth with a resultant softer shave. Various other hones will develop even narrower teeth and various pastes with particles smaller than the hone will soften the edge even more. The narrower and softer teeth become however, the easier the teeth can break off and require the blade to be re honed.

The final stage is to align the teeth for super smoothness using a strop. I think that the hardness of the strop should match the teeth. Soft leather for fine teeth and course leather or linen for the bigger teeth.

You may have noticed that I have not used the word sharp yet. The reason for this is I believe that whatever the size of the toothy edge, it must be sharp. I also believe that the differences I'm talking about are not huge. But we all know when we have had a comfortable shave. As I've got older, my skin has become a little more sensitive and I now prefer the Japanese hone. This said, I would not have liked it so much when I was younger.

I know it's been a while since anyone has posted something here. For some reason I find myself visiting this thread occasionally. It never hurts to reread good, valid information, of which there seems to be plenty present in "The Coticule Chronicles".
And still, there is an observation that is not yet been made on these pages, that I think is of some significance to the many questions posed.
The facts are these: the width of an ideal razor edge is less then 0.5 micron, according to professor Verhoeven's measurements.
For those who are not familiar with Verhoeven's experiments: http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/KnifeShExps.pdf
Coticule garnets are 10 to 15 microns in diameter. The sharp facets of those round and oval shaped garnets are of course much smaller, and that's why it is such a fine polisher. At the same time it does not ask for much imagination to picture what must be happening if the fine edge of a razor is forced through a slurry of - relative to the edge's width- giant pointy cannonballs.
I would suspect they would abrade the edge quickly to the point where it becomes sturdy enough to push the garnets either under, or over the blade. One can even witness that process easily by watching a heavy slurry running over the edge during the first few strokes and subsequently noticing it pushed more and more in a wave ahead of the edge.
For polishing purposes, this occurs to me as the main reason to hone without slurry: to make sure the blade rides as much as possible on top of the garnets, while they are still half embedded into the surface of the stone.
I don't believe the stone becomes finer or less fine with/without slurry and/or different honing lubricants. I believe there's only a difference in how much a particular method leaves the very tip of the bevel intact, or how much it allows for the smallest possible edge, without it being obliterated by collision with the garnets.
I think this principle, if correct, would apply to the Belgian Blue as much as to the Coticule.

Please don't get the wrong idea. I love these hones. I only think it's important to understand them well, to maximize what they can do for a knife's edge, whether that's a kitchen knife, a wood chisel, or a razor.

Feel free to contradict.
Bart.

I've bought a 30 x 125 mm selected Belgian yellow coticule.
I had a Kropp in good condition off Ebay. It was sharp, but not shave ready (and covered in dried up lather that was older than me, well maybe)
I cleaned up the razor, did 20 or so laps on the wet (no slurry) coticule, then 50 laps or so very lightly on the cuticule dry (all told) then stroped the razor to death.
The Kropp is now in active service and I often reach for it !
So, Is a dry coticule a good, more versitile alternative to a Barbers hone?
M

The Coticule in general is a more versatile hone than nearly all others.

I've had a good experience using one of my Coticules dry, but others don't seem to do so well. I guess it's just the nature of a natural stone, some slight variation is inherent.

Honestly after using my BBW/Coticule natural combo I've stopped even using a Norton. I have a Naniwa 1000 for bevel setting but after that the coticule is so versatile I don't need anything else unless I want to use a Nakayama to get a super smooth edge. They are just amazing stones!

I have played with the coticule bbw i just find the coticule with slurry just does'nt give me sharp enought edge finishing with water defanatley improves the edge. bbw slurry then finishing on yellow with water is very good 4k/8k before hand then bbw s / coti w gives very good smooth but sharper edge i love honing on the coticule i have several but my favourite bbw/coti natyural combo 5x3 from howard yellow side has pink ish swirls on the surface its a real beauty it cuts fast and polishes well .

Gary,
I use water only as the finishing step in using the Coticule side. It works well for me. I'm wondering out loud now if the properties of the Naniwa 1000 in setting the bevel has any bearing on how well the BBW/Coticule works later???

Originally Posted by Gunner777

Gary,
I use water only as the finishing step in using the Coticule side. It works well for me. I'm wondering out loud now if the properties of the Naniwa 1000 in setting the bevel has any bearing on how well the BBW/Coticule works later???

Perhaps, nothing that would make a huge difference though I don't suppose? I guess some bevel setters leave much deeper scratches than others, mine seems to be quite slow but polish at the same time.

I'm very happy with both my new natural combo and my vintage BBW. They're great stones, I enjoy using them very much.

I don't know if there is a difference between the new BBW/Coticules and the vintage BBW/Coticules. Mine is a natural vintage coticule I found in an antiques store that came in with a very old Bengall wedge. I got what I had been looking for but couldn't really afford for $10:-)