Thread: Coticule chronicles

The second day of my experiment went almost as well as the first. I actually considered skipping my shave today, because after 21 hours I barely had any stubble. But what fun is that?

I always have to be careful on the day after a really good shave. I tend to go for the same level of closeness and wind up with razor burn because there isn't much stubble for the razor to get at.

The shave felt even smoother than yesterday; it was wiping-the-stubble-off-my-face smooth. I did a little extra stropping between the shaves, and it seemed to have paid off.

I had a tiny bit of razor burn--much less than I expected, considering how close this shave was.

I'm resetting the clock tomorrow, though. I honed up one of my favorite Solingen razors using just the Belgian blue to see if this works equally well with a harder steel.

Josh

Originally Posted by dylandog

Heavyduty, can I ask why you went from the Blue to the Tam in your experiment? Aren't they right about equal grits?

I have heard that the belgian blue is 4-6K and the Tam is 6-8K; however, I have not yet performed enough shave tests directly off these stones to come to my own conclusion about their grits. Also as you probably know, grit size does not have a perfect correlation with sharpness or shaving comfort so it is possible that even if they are equal grits one might produce an edge that shaves better. Furthermore, Randy told me that the Tam produces an edge that shaves comfortably even though it will not be as sharp as an edge off the yellow coticule. I have not heard of anyone shaving off the belgian blue before this thread so I figured that I would try to shave off the Tam first. As I said before I did not really care for the edge off the Tam but I will be doing more tests to make sure that my results were representitive of what the stone is capable of in my hands. After hearing about Josh's great preliminary results off the blue, I will also be experimenting with shaving directly off the blue. I don't think that I will like the results nearly as much as the coticule/escher edge that I am comparing to though.

I tried out my Solingen razor this morning, and again I am stunned by the results. I think I've found the perfect shaving edge for me.

On the weekends, I usually shave around noon on Saturday, about 9 on Sunday, and about 7 on Monday. This means I get two shaves in a row on less that 24 hours of growth, and my Monday shaves typically leave me a little tender.

Not today. Face feels great--nearly BBS, no burn at all. Alum bar stung a little, but much less than in the past. Razor glided over my face with no effort--even on my chin.

The only thing that remains to be seen for me is whether this edge holds up over repeated shaves.

I think with my sensitive skin and relatively thick beard, a smoother, less sharp edge works better. I was striving for sharper and sharper, not realizing I was going the wrong direction.

Even the coticule must make the edge just a little too sharp for me. I'm pretty disappointed that I won't be using my coticule as much, because it's a beautiful hone and a joy to use. I'm hoping that I can find a way to use it to improve the edge I'm enjoying now without getting the razor too sharp.

Maybe I'll try doing just a few strokes to get some extra smoothness. I also plan to give the slurry another shot--maybe just a really light slurry this time.

I'm looking forward to hearing others' experiences.

Josh

I have to say this is really fascinating, I'm still taking it all in. I want to take a moment to thank Josh, and Bruno and LX (and now Heavyduty and Yannis and a few others) for contributing so much to our knowledge of the belgians as working hones.

When I got into this a year ago, I made the decision to get a big belgian natural combo (8x3) instead of a Norton, for what were silly romantic reasons (it's so cool that it's natural! the natural seam where the two rocks join!). Everyone was using the Norton as the workhorse and the belgians for finishing, and I was a little at sea (though Randy was a big help).

This is all very different now, thanks to you guys.

As I said, I'm still taking all this in, but I'm continually struck by how versatile natural slurry stones are. With a heavy slurry even a high-grit stone like the coticule can really remove metal; and conversely, with a light touch and light/no slurry even a medium-grit stone like the blue can be a great finisher. I have found these things to be true of the Tam as well, and though I haven't rigorously experimented yet I have had success finishing with it after washing off the slurry and using very light strokes. I now have a big Tam (8x2) with a lower-grit reverse side called a "Dalmore Blue" (~4K, natural, very beautiful with swirls and folds and lines in it, looks like a just-pulled pint of Guinness) that I'm going to experiment a little with; this combo could be an interesting alternative to my blue/yellow.

Dylandog,

The lack of info about Belgians is what gave me the idea for starting this thread. Bruno and Howard gave me some great info through PMs and e-mails, and I thought it would be nice to have a place to put it all together in one place.

I'm with you about the versatility of natural hones. These two pieces of rock are capable of producing a wide range of finishes on an edge--very, very cool. I expect further experimenting will show there are still more ways of using them.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed ideas to this thread--I've learned a lot.

Josh

I am curious to see what happens if we use lampoil for finishing with these stones, as these stones are no porrows and lampoil is easily washed with dishsoap

Originally Posted by Yannis

I am curious to see what happens if we use lampoil for finishing with these stones, as these stones are no porrows and lampoil is easily washed with dishsoap

Yannis,

I have used Caswell-Massey almond oil, and maybe some other oils, iirc, on a Belgian: worked very very well, but is a bit messy (compared to the water).

Curtis -
I was so ready to snap this vintage TOS you are talking about, for some reason decided I have enough stones Glad you like it

Natural stones rule!

Cheers
Ivo

This weekend Sergio Bruna and I visited Ross Cutlery in Los Angeles to ask the owner some questions about their methods of honing razors as Sergio was very impressed with the edges that they had put on the razors that he purchased. Richard and his brother Allen have over 40 years experience in sharpening knives and straight razors and apparently they used to sharpen Lynn’s razors for him before he went his own way. I figured that I would share what I learned from talking to the owner and felt this was a good place to put the information because I bet you all can guess what his main workhorse hone is…..that’s right, the yellow Belgian coticule. Please note that I am not sharing my personal views or methods on honing, I am just sharing what I learned from Allen.

Allen had a very thin (about ½) but long (about 8 inches) yellow coticule that he said was all that he used for most razors. When I asked him what other stones he used on razors he said that he mostly just used the yellow coticule until the razor was sharp; however, if the razor needed lots of work he would regrind it or use some of his “diamond stones”. I asked him what type of diamond stones he used and he said he did not recall, but he thought he had a very course one for periodically flattening his Belgian and a some finer ones for razors that needed a lot of work. When honing Allen used light and quick passes and held the razor at a 45 degree angle as opposed to perpendicular to the stone (he said that he used the angle regardless of the grind because it is easier for him). He told me that the teeth and scratch pattern did not really matter because the yellow coticule was so fine; so he was not worried about getting an exact honing angle. For a new razor he told me that as a rule he would do 100 passes which he would count in his head and then assess the blade sharpness from there. If he felt that the blade was not quite sharp enough he would do another 20-30 passes then assess the blade again. He did not use any slurry with the stone and when I asked him about this he told me that the razor would generate enough slurry on its own; creating a slurry with another piece of coticule would work well but just cause unnecessary wear of the stone.

Allen used the TPT as his main test of edge sharpness. He performed the test like I do, in that he lightly ran his thumb along the edge (not across) and was looking the feel of a drag or bite in his skin. He also had a variation of this test where he ran the edge along the palm of his hand (under his thumb) and sliced into the very top layer of his skin. After sharpening Sergio’s razors he also showed us that his razors passed the HHT and told us that many people consider this test the ultimate test of sharpness. Sergio asked Allen whether it was possible to overhone a razor on a yellow coticule and Allen said that it was not. He said that the only negative about doing too many strokes on the yellow would be that you could remove more metal than what is necessary; however, the edge would still be good.

Allen sharpened two razors for Sergio in a little over 10 min with just a yellow Belgian and they were very sharp according to all of the standard tests. After the honing “lesson” I could not help but think that we might be making things more complicated than what is necessary with respect to honing. Allen simply sharpened the razors on the yellow Belgian until they were sharp, he did not have any fancy honing progressions with multiple stones, grits, pressure, angles etc. If anyone has any specific questions about Allen’s honing method I will try to answer it as best that I can; however, LX's video on using the yellow coticule is pretty similar to what Allen did. It really seems that a yellow Belgian coticule is much more than a great finishing stone. It is a great stone period.

What about slurry or water on the yellow?

He always used the stone wet, but did not generate a slurry with a rubbing stone.