Thread: The dreaded white line.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Another simple no-destructive test is a Qtip. Run a Qtip along the edge, the slightest chip or non-meeting bevel will snag.

Very useful tip. A test whose result directly correlates to testing conditions. No snag equals good edge. Simple and direct. Thank you.

True story. If significant work is required To attain a bevel I knock it back periodically with a thumbnail, Tom uses a strop, and I am willing to bet we can come up with two more methods. Like back honing and ...

Originally Posted by RezDog

True story. If significant work is required To attain a bevel I knock it back periodically with a thumbnail, Tom uses a strop, and I am willing to bet we can come up with two more methods. Like back honing and ...

Yeah! In that order! Backhoning, glass bottle, stiff linen strop. Bust em off!

Back to the 1k with a different purpose in mind?

One other thing you can do, if you think the bevel is set, (2 hours are way, way too long), but are not sure.

Joint the edge on a corner of the stone, now look at the edge, (one stroke) you will see a definite white line. The edge will now be straight but the bevels not meeting.

Now 10 -15 laps with light pressure should easily re-set the bevel, it will also straighten the edge considerably and reduce the height of the 1k bevel set stria, making the next stone honing much easier and shorter.

Once the bevels are meeting, fully set, remove the 1k stria with the next stone, 2k in your case, circles will help in removing deep stria, finish with X laps, then the 2k stria with the 5k.

At 8k, the edge should be very straight, concentrate on getting as straight an edge as possible with light finish laps,

I would skip the 10k and go to the 12k for finish. Again, light laps will keep the edge straight.

If you remove all the deep 1k stria, all the other stones should go quickly.

Are your 8,10 and 12k synthetic stones?

Thanks for the replys gentlemen.
I was using my loupe and it showed the line but not as much as the USB Microscope I use for pics. And the light source is 6 LED's around the lens. If I turn it up for pics it just washes everything out and you can't see much of anything. So I turned the light down to min. The bevel is black but the blade face shows some light reflecting along with the edge. Its very slight on the edge. I didn't come up with any flat spots, shinny spots that is, just a very thin line.

I'll try the ideas given as I need all the help I can get. Yep, way too long setting bevel. Thinking I was just at the point where it was good and not getting better even with light strokes but I kept going sense I could see the fine line still when looking straight down on it. Q-tip and the other options will be tried next. I just need to find that solid one thing that will tell me when I'm there.

Yes, I'm working on restored razors so I do kill the edge 2 or 3 times as I go along when setting bevel. I've found this helps a lot. And the idea of killing and giving just a few laps and check, that sound smart too. Like I said I'll give all this options a go but it will wait till tomorrow. If the wife dont have lots for me to do. Tomorrow is my Sunday.

I did manage to hone a Lafayette and it turned out almost as nice as the one I was showing you all here. Close but not quite perfect. I'll have to get it touched up a bit then start on a couple W&B. That will throw a curve into my training. Smiles still mess with me too. But I'm still ready to go till I get this figured out. No quiter here!
Thanks all.

And I'll work on my lighting next time. ha.

Remember that a burr will reflect light and even rubbing the burr
off with cork will leave texture on the bevels edge that will reflect.

Try wiping with a water proof marker and then visit the hone lightly.
A terrible non bevel will be magic marker black or red (pick colors that work for you).

A good bevel will catch on a your nail and some hard plastics.
One knife sharpener makes a plastic tester for this.
At 1k some could test with a wood chopstick.

Once the bevel is set it is just making the surfaces and the edge finer and finer.
Without the set bevel the edge never gets better and a hair will slide and not catch.

Hair, horn and a fingernail are about the same stuff.
If the edge catches on a fingernail it will catch a whisker and try to slice it off. (TRY!)
A dull blade or dry whisker will tug a little or a lot before it cuts or releases.
A solution pair for a razor that catches on whiskers is two fold:
*) better face and whisker prep
*) revisit the finishing and polishing grits (about Norton 8K or finer)

A commercial DE blade has teflon to smoothly cut through a whisker.
We have polish on our steel mostly on strops more today with modern hones.

Lacking a bevel the razor will wipe lather but not grab whiskers (I am generalizing)
and almost feel OK, but not shave.
Given a good bevel the razor will grab whiskers and if sharp enough and polished
enough will slice them close to the skin.

Others can talk about the too sharp harsh shave.

A few things I've found that have led me to spend more time than I should on the bevel:

Burrs - already covered, but if they formed they'll throw a false reading.
Tiny bits of unidentified debris - paper towel, skin cells, bits of Q-tip fiber that got hung up on the edge can all create a white sheen that looks questionable. It's imperative that the edge be clean, or that you can identify any schmootz that got hung up there. I've had skin cells or paper towel fibers from a quick wipe down throw me off a time or two.

Another thing to keep in mind, once you stop seeing progress, more work on that hone isn't going to improve things. Notice that as you progressed through the stones that line got thinner and more refined? Once that white line stops getting thinner no matter what honing tricks I try, I move on to the next hone in the progression cause that's as good as it's getting. I've chased a few like that for longer than I should've. Some steels play nice and the line is virtually invisible at 1K, others just have to be coaxed further up the line and disappear around the end of the 4k or even middle of the 8K set.

So, remember that honing after edge repair work, buffing, hand sanding or edge re-shaping, is much different than just Garden Variety honing or touching up. It is still repair work and not uncommon for edges to chip easily or fail after a stropping or two, it the edge is not properly removed down to solid metal.

It may take more time and work to get a solid edge. As said removing the edge after bevel setting, is a simple and very valid solution. I will generally do this at the 1k level. This will also strengthen the edge and make it much straighter. With a little bit of work, you can get a 1k edge very straight and smooth.

I use several methods to test an edge, typically I thumb pad test, for keenness, arm hair test, (tree topping or just grabbing a hair at mid height), look at the edge, from the side with magnification (for honing to the edge & uniform stria patterns), look straight down on the edge with a 60x lighted loupe, and sharpie test the edge, lightly drag a sharpie across the edge for micro-chips.

Each of these tests only takes a second, but if one fails, there is no need to continue. Identify the problem and implement a solution, Lower more aggressive grit if needed or joint the edge straight and re-set or adjust pressure or stroke, Circles to remove material, X strokes to smooth and lay down uniform stria and straighten edges.

When looking at the edge, be careful to not hit the edge with the loupe. If you do, you can damage the edge. If you hear the dreaded “Ting” from the edge biting the loupe, you just chipped the edge.

My only test at 1k is if it can cut arm hair crisply and uniformly over the entire length, I will also look at the bevel scratches to make sure I'm progressing.

If it takes two hours to set a bevel something else is going on with that edge, if I can't get it within 20 mins I put it aside for another day and another mindset.

The white line can be two things, an unset bevel or a wire edge/fin whatever - and it's entirely possible to have both on the same edge at the same time.

As Euclid440 said, a QTip can help identify a fin, they're usually folded over a bit and will snag cotton and other soft fibers.

They can also be honed off, so give the razor 40 of the lightest strokes you can imagine flipping the blade each stroke then check to see if the white line is gone or diminished. A fin/false edge is caused by too much pressure and too much time on one side and is aggravated by aggressive non-slurrying stones such as many synthetics.

Also keep looking with magnification. You can tell the difference between an unset bevel and a fin with a little practice.

Cheers, Steve