Thread: Short stones/strokes - More Control? Less Burr?

Gentlemen,

I've been meaning to post on this topic because Iwasaki of course mentions a honyama burr and removing it, but also because of comments from others, most recently srdjan in post #13 on the 'towel' thread, and using shorter strokes, especially to finish seems to be an interesting topic.

A while back on another forum, Eric Kretz mentioned that long strokes on a jnat could cause a burr to develop that he could see or begin to see with a microscope, and that shorter strokes reduced or eliminated it. Eric, please correct me if I am wrong or mis-speaking, it's been some time ago. A different individual posted on that forum indicating that he thought better control was maintained with shorter strokes possibly leading to better results.

I like using the 'leather' size jnats, nominally 136x80mm but wanted to ask if people here feel the same way about shorter hones/strokes, what they feel makes shorter strokes better (or not), and how they implement those strokes while honing. Typically if I'm using a full-size or size 60 stone, I'll reduce the stroke length and pressure for the last half of the final finishing.

Any input would be appreciated!

Cheers, Steve

I finish with short, what I call V strokes (short strokes with a large linear component).

Using a mind experiment it is easy to see how honing on an extremely long hone would lead to the formation of a burr.

Hi Steve! I will only just slightly modify your recollection - IIRC I made that statement regarding very quick-cutting, grit-rich JNats used with very little or no slurry. Then occasionally I see that result. I definitely see it more often with synthetic hones.

I also find that finishing with short, alternating strokes is the best route to finishing burr-free for me. As far as I'm concerned it's only common sense that shorter strokes will produce less burr/wire formation. If you think about it, a very long stroke of several feet on one side of the blade only would tend to produce a massive burr/wire. It only makes sense that very short, alternating strokes would be the best and easiest way to eliminate one.

Following a similarly-sized hard coticule, I've been using a 1-3/8" x 3" honyama with water as a finisher. Short strokes indeed. This seems to necessitate a laterally-biassed, rolling X-stroke. Seems to work well for me. No problems with a burr there.

Alternating strokes will not easily create a burr.
If you're getting a burr on a razor you're using a bunch of pressure or doing many strokes on one side or honing past the meeting of the 2 sides. This is more likely at bevel set.

Iwasaki did use a fair bit of pressure in early stages but that's not such a bad thing to get things rolling.

Of course, if you're restoring an edge that gets sharp at some points earlier than others a burr can also develop but I doubt the size of the stone plays a major part.

We can't really theorise about stones that are several feet in length

I see burrs being relative to pressure & not the length of the hone or a short stroke on a long hone.

Most of my honing is done on 8 x 3 inch (200 x 75 mm) or larger stones and I can't say I've run into a lot of burrs. Like onimaru55 said, mostly at bevel set with a lot of pressure and many strokes on one side. And that's a non issue because on the rare occasion I DO create a burr, it's knocked off before moving on to the next hone with a handful of edge leading X strokes.

Preference kind of depends on what I'm doing though. If I'm doing a full bevel set or working with slurry, I want a wider longer hone so I can get a full stroke and keep more slurry atop the hone. If I'm just tweaking an edge that just recently fell off, a small 5-6 x 2 inch (125-150 x 50 mm) stone or barber hone might be all that's warranted.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Most of my honing is done on 8 x 3 inch (200 x 75 mm) or larger stones and I can't say I've run into a lot of burrs. Like onimaru55 said, mostly at bevel set with a lot of pressure and many strokes on one side. And that's a non issue because on the rare occasion I DO create a burr, it's knocked off before moving on to the next hone with a handful of edge leading X strokes.

Same here edge repairing with lots of slurry often = burr, but a few strokes on a clean stone & all gone.

I have never seen burr form on a Jnat. I have seen over-honed edges on a Jnat.
Several light strokes fix that usually.
For years, I have been using short finishing strokes, almost perpendicular direction of motion to the long side of the stone, on Jnats and on synthetics. I like the results.

Please pardon the question, but I'm confused. Isn't over-honing the same as forming a burr on an already set bevel?

Edit: Thank you all kindly for your answers; I understand the difference between a burr and a wire edge now.