Results 1 to 10 of 25
-
06-26-2017, 03:18 PM #1
Short stones/strokes - More Control? Less Burr?
Gentlemen,
I've been meaning to post on this topic because Iwasaki of course mentions a honyama burr and removing it, but also because of comments from others, most recently srdjan in post #13 on the 'towel' thread, and using shorter strokes, especially to finish seems to be an interesting topic.
A while back on another forum, Eric Kretz mentioned that long strokes on a jnat could cause a burr to develop that he could see or begin to see with a microscope, and that shorter strokes reduced or eliminated it. Eric, please correct me if I am wrong or mis-speaking, it's been some time ago. A different individual posted on that forum indicating that he thought better control was maintained with shorter strokes possibly leading to better results.
I like using the 'leather' size jnats, nominally 136x80mm but wanted to ask if people here feel the same way about shorter hones/strokes, what they feel makes shorter strokes better (or not), and how they implement those strokes while honing. Typically if I'm using a full-size or size 60 stone, I'll reduce the stroke length and pressure for the last half of the final finishing.
Any input would be appreciated!
Cheers, Steve
-
06-26-2017, 03:56 PM #2
I finish with short, what I call V strokes (short strokes with a large linear component).
Using a mind experiment it is easy to see how honing on an extremely long hone would lead to the formation of a burr.
-
06-26-2017, 07:01 PM #3
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
- Location
- NW Indiana
- Posts
- 1,060
Thanked: 246Hi Steve! I will only just slightly modify your recollection - IIRC I made that statement regarding very quick-cutting, grit-rich JNats used with very little or no slurry. Then occasionally I see that result. I definitely see it more often with synthetic hones.
I also find that finishing with short, alternating strokes is the best route to finishing burr-free for me. As far as I'm concerned it's only common sense that shorter strokes will produce less burr/wire formation. If you think about it, a very long stroke of several feet on one side of the blade only would tend to produce a massive burr/wire. It only makes sense that very short, alternating strokes would be the best and easiest way to eliminate one.
-
The Following User Says Thank You to eKretz For This Useful Post:
Steve56 (06-26-2017)
-
06-26-2017, 08:58 PM #4
Following a similarly-sized hard coticule, I've been using a 1-3/8" x 3" honyama with water as a finisher. Short strokes indeed. This seems to necessitate a laterally-biassed, rolling X-stroke. Seems to work well for me. No problems with a burr there.
Striving to be brief, I become obscure. --Horace
-
06-26-2017, 11:18 PM #5
Alternating strokes will not easily create a burr.
If you're getting a burr on a razor you're using a bunch of pressure or doing many strokes on one side or honing past the meeting of the 2 sides. This is more likely at bevel set.
Iwasaki did use a fair bit of pressure in early stages but that's not such a bad thing to get things rolling.
Of course, if you're restoring an edge that gets sharp at some points earlier than others a burr can also develop but I doubt the size of the stone plays a major part.
We can't really theorise about stones that are several feet in lengthLast edited by onimaru55; 06-26-2017 at 11:22 PM.
The white gleam of swords, not the black ink of books, clears doubts and uncertainties and bleak outlooks.
-
-
06-26-2017, 11:56 PM #6
I see burrs being relative to pressure & not the length of the hone or a short stroke on a long hone.
-
The Following User Says Thank You to Hirlau For This Useful Post:
Marshal (06-27-2017)
-
06-27-2017, 12:03 AM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Location
- Virginia, USA
- Posts
- 2,224
Thanked: 481Most of my honing is done on 8 x 3 inch (200 x 75 mm) or larger stones and I can't say I've run into a lot of burrs. Like onimaru55 said, mostly at bevel set with a lot of pressure and many strokes on one side. And that's a non issue because on the rare occasion I DO create a burr, it's knocked off before moving on to the next hone with a handful of edge leading X strokes.
Preference kind of depends on what I'm doing though. If I'm doing a full bevel set or working with slurry, I want a wider longer hone so I can get a full stroke and keep more slurry atop the hone. If I'm just tweaking an edge that just recently fell off, a small 5-6 x 2 inch (125-150 x 50 mm) stone or barber hone might be all that's warranted.
-
06-27-2017, 12:07 AM #8
-
06-27-2017, 12:24 AM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Des Moines
- Posts
- 8,664
- Blog Entries
- 1
Thanked: 2591I have never seen burr form on a Jnat. I have seen over-honed edges on a Jnat.
Several light strokes fix that usually.
For years, I have been using short finishing strokes, almost perpendicular direction of motion to the long side of the stone, on Jnats and on synthetics. I like the results.Stefan
-
06-27-2017, 05:04 AM #10
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- Southern California
- Posts
- 802
Thanked: 154Please pardon the question, but I'm confused. Isn't over-honing the same as forming a burr on an already set bevel?
Edit: Thank you all kindly for your answers; I understand the difference between a burr and a wire edge now.Last edited by JeffR; 06-28-2017 at 12:29 AM.
de gustibus non est disputandum