Thread: Diamond plate vs. tomo nagura

Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

I blend both worlds. First true my jnat with 1200 Atoma, Yes scratches seen. Remove scratches with tomo. Then slurry tomo on Atoma and mist water on atoma drip onto jnat. Super flat no scratch base stone. Only tomo particles on base jnat. Works for me. I hate when tomo suctions onto jnat, I lift tomo and gouge jnat. Thus my work around, no more gouges or scratches.

Think i will try this and see what happens

Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

I blend both worlds. First true my jnat with 1200 Atoma, Yes scratches seen. Remove scratches with tomo. Then slurry tomo on Atoma and mist water on atoma drip onto jnat. Super flat no scratch base stone. Only tomo particles on base jnat. Works for me. I hate when tomo suctions onto jnat, I lift tomo and gouge jnat. Thus my work around, no more gouges or scratches.

If you hold the tomo as close to the stone as you can, it will not tip and gouge the stone, at least not very easily. If you hold the tomo up high, it tips a lot easier. Don't ask me how I know this lol.

Cheers, Steve

On harder stones personally I like to slightly radius the Tomo. This makes slurry generation easier and faster and lessens the likelihood of scratches. I use a very gentle radius, maybe 1mm from high to low point across the face of the Tomo. When using the Tomo I slightly rock it along the radius while rubbing on the stone surface.

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

...The biggest problem here is that whatever conclusion someone else comes to with their Jnats and Tomo nagura, will be entirely different to the next chaps, as he's using different natural hones and tomo nagura. The only thing you can do is try with your hones and tomo nagura to see if your tomo nagura really makes it better for YOU...

Regards

Christian aka

Kaptain "Tailspin" Zero

Just to throw another variable in there, I've seen different people get different results from the exact same natural stone. So your face/beard/preferences will also differ from the next person's.

Originally Posted by eKretz

On harder stones personally I like to slightly radius the Tomo. This makes slurry generation easier and faster and lessens the likelihood of scratches. I use a very gentle radius, maybe 1mm from high to low point across the face of the Tomo. When using the Tomo I slightly rock it along the radius while rubbing on the stone surface.

This is what I was going to suggest. The first time I got a slurry/nagura stone suctioned to a hone and gouged it, I rounded up all of mine and put a radius on them. Haven't had that issue since. I'm also much gentler, even if it does take longer to work up a suitable slurry.

While we are dealing with Nagura, like others I use a Atoma 1200 as a diamond nagura for my 3 naturals (Ozuku Asagi, Wakasa,Shobu Asagi) I have looked at Tomo and then seen the Asano nagura. I am a little wary of using them. My reason is that I bought all the jnats for use as finishing stones, so I don't want to alter it's cutting power, other than to enhance its fineness. Brings me to my question, I see on JNS they sell Koma nagura, supposedly fine, and a step past Tomo. They are not cheap either, but are they good? Does anyone see that for me, I'd like to add another step up the ladder to a better edge, so why would I buy, botan etc, when perhaps I'd get more satisfaction from a Koma, which are round $120 bucks for a stamped piece of about 130 grams? Your views gentlemen. Bob.

Much like the finishing JNats themselves, I think it really depends on the individual piece. I have used Koma that are very soft and seem a slight bit coarser and Koma that are very hard, which seem to cut finer. I think ideally I would try to match the Koma hardness with the finishing stone, but that's not always easy to do, and most sellers that I've seen don't rate Asano nagura hardness - but you can ask.

I don't think that Koma will ever be a step past a good Tomo though.

Bob, as I understand it... and I have a 3 piece set of Nagura that I use... they serve only the purpose of creating a coarser slurry to speed up honing and you in the end end up with only water, cleaning after each nagura slurry. The final slurry would be the one you raise with your Atoma 1200.... the other way of raising such a slurry is with a tomo nagura. If you cut a piece off of one of your Jnats, it could become your tomo nagura.

There is apparently plenty of bad nagura out there.... stuff with errant larger grit mixed in. Quality graded and tested nagura is more rare and quickly goes up in price, depending on size. If I understand correctly, koma is very sought after by sword polishers, thus the higher prices, but it's for polishing, not honing.

The fastest way for you to figure out if you want to try a tomo, is to create a slurry by rubbing two of your hones together. If you find that slurry better than the one you raise with the Atoma, start looking for a good tomo. I did that myself, and I'm sticking with my Atoma for raising slurry on the hones I have. Naturally, if you buy a tomo nagura, you will again have to try several to find the one that works best with YOUR hones, unless you are super lucky and the first one you buy is the one you want....

Regards

Christian aka

Kaptain "I'm NEVER that lucky" Zero

I have been playing around with several tomo's I have, even one's not matched to the stone by the seller and I just seem to get better edges with a DN 1200 slurry, maybe it's my technique or maybe the tomo's

Originally Posted by bobski

I am a little wary of using them. My reason is that I bought all the jnats for use as finishing stones, so I don't want to alter it's cutting power, other than to enhance its fineness.

you are not going to alter the cutting power of the stone it self, the cutting power will come from the nagura.

Originally Posted by bobski

I see on JNS they sell Koma nagura, supposedly fine, and a step past Tomo. They are not cheap either, but are they good? Does anyone see that for me, I'd like to add another step up the ladder to a better edge, so why would I buy, botan etc, when perhaps I'd get more satisfaction from a Koma, which are round $120 bucks for a stamped piece of about 130 grams? Your views gentlemen. Bob.

Koma is not a step past tomonagra it is the step before the tomonagura.

You can use Koma after 8k synthetic, but if you want to start lower you have to use Botan and Mejiro before that. Each beaks down differently and together they make a progression that refines the scratches on the bevels and prepares them for the tomonagura step.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Much like the finishing JNats themselves, I think it really depends on the individual piece. I have used Koma that are very soft and seem a slight bit coarser and Koma that are very hard, which seem to cut finer. I think ideally I would try to match the Koma hardness with the finishing stone, but that's not always easy to do, and most sellers that I've seen don't rate Asano nagura hardness - but you can ask.

I don't think that Koma will ever be a step past a good Tomo though.

A lot of the vintage koma is softer, and it is usually not as white - kind of a cream color. The modern Asano stamped stuff tends to be much harder, whiter, and finer but some of it is so hard it's difficult to use. Since I'm following it with a tomo nagura on a finisher, I'd usualy prefer the older, softer koma though I have a couple of harder white pieces that I like too.

Cheers, Steve