Thread: Learning to read "the wave"

hi guys,

One of the best tips I've read so far was the one from Gssixgun about "reading the wave".

However, I still find the undercutting part difficult to understand.
I know a lot of parameters influence the behaviour of the water like slurry, speed, quantity of water etc.

The main thing I try to understand is; when should there be undercutting vs wave being pushed in front of the blade?

for example, I was honing on the shapton gs 1K yesterday and the razor pushed the puddle of water nice and evenly.
However after about 80 laps there was still no undercut but I could feel a smoother feel on the stone.
Also did the razor passed the AHT and TNT.
I then decided to move on to the 2K and so on and at the 4K there was an undercut, till the middle on the blade.
on the 8K as well, 16K not and on the SG20K there also was clear undercutting.

So in short; when setting the bevel, should there (Always) be undercutting ?

PS: the shave this morning wa doable, but by no means great like it should be!

I always look for an undercut at bevel set, I normally will set a bevel with a 4K Shapton GS with a light DN 1200 slurry, sometimes chips and such require a 1K but i try to reduce my work of getting rid of those 1K scratches.

So the basis for every great edge is the bevel set. Without that perfect and continuous apex no amount of polishing will ever make it a smooth shaver. Very little of what happens above the 4K has a substantial impact on the building of the apex, the higher grit hones are all refining the apex.
I do not use the same hones, but the theory should still be true. I also rely much less on the AHT and TNT and more on the loupe.
As I hone and watch the interaction of the hone, blade and water, it indicates when I should be looking and checking with the loupe.
Typically an edge on the 1K that does not undercut the water in front, does not have a fully developed apex. There are many small influences like pressure that also come to play. Basically as the water start to undercut I use less pressure, until I have made my final strokes on that hone, it also the point when I check the edge with a loupe.
When using pressure less is most often better. I tend to lean more towards more strokes less pressure. It seems to take longer to sneak up than to try to approach quickly but the effects of pressure on the edge can work against you rather easily.

You actually answered you own question

It depends on the variables

BUT

In general as the bevel gets smoother and smoother the easier it will Undercut, but you will start to see how your stroke and your hones make it happen..

or at about the 4k hehehehe

Remember as so many LOVE to say, "Honing ain't Rocket Science" which is actually more accurate then they think. It isn't really "science" at all if it was there would be a simple repeatable formula'''

Originally Posted by gssixgun

or at about the 4k hehehehe

So it is safe to take for granted that at the 4K hone, the razor is not undercutting, there is no need to proceed further on the progress?
And it is advisable to try and have the razor to undercut even at the 1K, but this might not always happen?

The honing is starting to become equally as fun as the shaving :-)

Originally Posted by Mikali

So it is safe to take for granted that at the 4K hone, the razor is not undercutting, there is no need to proceed further on the progress?
And it is advisable to try and have the razor to undercut even at the 1K, but this might not always happen?

The honing is starting to become equally as fun as the shaving :-)

No I can't say that

If I were sitting across the table at a meet then I would know oh so much more and could see any issues

All I can do here is say pay close attention to that wave, and adjust for subtle changes to keep the wave either in front of or riding up on the blade face

Ok there went my luck for an "easy" parameter.
So all that is certain is when the wave is riding in front it means the edge is touching the stone.

At least one thing to know for sure hehe

I still find it hard for all this honing information to fall into place to see the entire picture, but the challenge is kinda fun.

In person it is so much easier to explain in person. It is part of what makes meets so much fun and great learning.

I would love to participate in a meeting. But to fly from Belgium to the States... 😊

Originally Posted by Mikali

I would love to participate in a meeting. But to fly from Belgium to the States... ��

Ummmmmm Bruno is there ya know, and a few others, you guys should all get together