Thread: Sticky feeling

It happens because you’re burnishing the surface of the stone with steel, loading it with with steel particles as you hone. A hard stone will suffer from this more often and more severely than a softer one. Rub it with a slurry stone and the surface will refresh, exposing new cutting particles and releasing the razor. It will be more notable without tape because more steel is in contact with the stone, ultimately creating more resistance. This is how I see it anyway The second factor is the one you mentioned already - as you polish the steel, assuming the bevel is set correctly, the friction will increase because the stria on the edge and spine become smaller. You read and occasionally see woodworkers do the suction trick and raise the stone in the air, holding onto their plane blade, as a sign of how well refined the blade is. This is not very likely to happen with a razor, although I’d like to see someone try it!

Also seems to happen more frequently with a spine that has some wear on it.

Originally Posted by MODINE

In the immortal words of Dr. Peter Venkman, “Back off man, I’m a Scientist”. Attached is just one article on cavitation and the effect of bubble collapse. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00871608 Or Google Cavitation and surface tension. Mike

Nice one Mike.

I have experienced this suction sensation on every grind type, especially on coticule. For an excellent explanation watch the 4 part series by drmatt357 on YouTube, especially part 4 linked below.

https://youtu.be/to5Z-EFGDBY


Sent from Leon's iPhone

Originally Posted by Gasman

Ive been looking for this stickiness but have never found it yet. But, i always hone with tape. I guess this could be the reason i havent experianced it yet.

Tape does not have an effect on achieving stickiness.

I did watch drmatt. He's a bit to damn happy for me but nice vids with good explainations.

And thanks for stating that fact Stefan. Now I know I'm just not there yet. Tomorrow will be the big day for my Coti.

I was honing on a Muller Escher hone not too long ago and stickiness was achieved, its like a full on suction .

The edge was terrible btw .

Ever had fun when you were a kid stickind to flat surfaces that are wet to eachoter?...like two pieces of wet flat glass...

The sticking sensation has more to do with surface tension of the liquid between 2 flat hard objectsand the contact surface...aka the bevel and the stone.

It is proportional to the contact surface between the bevel and the stone and the density of the solution...it rises with the viscosity...also to the speed of the draw!...ie the harder you pull the stickier it seems to get.

Also some stones can exibit suction by absorbing water...like some thisrty sinthetics or porous natural stones. But that's a diffrent mechanism.

You wont get the sticky sensations on smily blades because contact surface is small.
Also thin bevels are less prone to exibit this phenomenon.

Blades that do exibit stickyness usualy have a larger area of contact with the stone....this translates to flat stone and flat bevels...witch is usualy a good indicator you're dooing something right.
The metal and stone are in close contact they interact at a molecular level....they begin to be atracted to one another.

I can see how cavitation would work in a clear water or honing solution...but I belive it has a smaller role to play in a slurry solution...cavitation tends to happen at higher speeds when those void bubbles form...I need to do some more reading about this...

Up until now...I have explained to myself the stickiness by surface tension...surface of contact and molecular atraction between two hard surfaces in intimate contact...but more research is necesary to further elucidate the matter.

Interesting topic.

Suction is usualy a good thing...provided you stop once you get it...it is a good indicator you got the blade and stone in intimate contact...I usualy ease up on the pressue and do just a few more light pressure passes once I get the sticky.

Agree. Stickiness for me on my naniwa 12k is a good thing. It tells me the edge is what you want it to be. On one or two razors the stickiness developed to the point where you could not easily continue without resorting to heavier pressure, which is not what is wanted at that point. I added some dishwashing liquid to my water and continued.

Can't specifically remember if the edge was any better than less sticky blades/edges.

Will be more observant in future.

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[QUOTE=ovidiucotiga;1773770]

The sticking sensation has more to do with surface tension of the liquid between 2 flat hard objects and the contact surface...aka the bevel and the stone.

It is proportional to the contact surface between the bevel and the stone and the density of the solution...it rises with the viscosity...also to the speed of the draw!...ie the harder you pull the stickier it seems to get.

The metal and stone are in close contact they interact at a molecular level....they begin to be atracted to one another.

I can see how cavitation would work in a clear water or honing solution...but I belive it has a smaller role to play in a slurry solution...cavitation tends to happen at higher speeds when those void bubbles form...I need to do some more reading about this...

Interesting topic.
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I agree, regarding the surface tension being the main factor. A surfactant (drop of dish soap) can be added to lower the surface tension between the liquid and solid. This would help to break the suction or tension.

Interestingly enough many times this same suction can be present during the shaving process if one holds the blade flat against the skin. And soap is used as well.
MIke