Thread: passing hht off of norton 4k

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The 4K produces catasrophic damage when overhoning. Chipping and bevel destruction, the 8K creates wires. Different grit, completely different problems.

This is very interesting. Could this be the reason i have problems with microchipping on some of my blades on the 4k side..? I was thinking it was just me being to heavy handed, never thougt about overhoning. Say i've got chipping from overhoning (4k), what would be the best way to proceed on that blade? Continue honing on the 4k side until it's gone? Anyone got any suggestions?

Terje

Oh, we all have suggestions. When I have microchipping from the 4K I think some of it comes from thinking that going straight down the hone won't hurt any and I get careless so I try first and correct it with more gentle strokes, not dropping the razor on the hone and seeing if I can fix it that way.

Next, if that doesn't work I'll sometimes work on 8K a bit and smooth things out a bit.

Sometimes I'll do some circle honing and see if that helps a little and then return to an x pattern.

When I try to teach people to hone I describe the edge sometimes like cheese. If you were to use a grater and try to create an edge with cheese the highest grit (smallest holes in the grater) would yield an edge and a grater with big holes in it would just TEAR at the cheese and break in prematurely. It would tear apart in big hunks of tasty cheese, but would never make a clean edge.

Thus, I often teach people to hone for a LONG time on the 8K and use 4K strokes judiciously in order to prevent microchipping.

I'm sure there are many other techniques that others can discuss. Since I spend time teaching people to hone I often have to choose simple techniques and silly comparisons.

Thanks Alan, that grater and cheese comparison made me see things a bit clearer. Not silly at all
I use the x pattern by the way. I also use a microscope, but i did not have one at the time when i honed out a nick in my Dovo stainless razor, so i could not really see what was happening. Turned out i had gotten rid of the nick but the blade was full of microchipping (60x) My instant thinking was: microchipping, i have to remove a lot of steel and hit the 4k side with it. With mixed result i might add, i did not use the 8k side at all during this process and i tried both the x pattern, straight across and circular honing. I do have some problems with the circular honing by the way, (having a hard time keeping the razor flat when going in circles).
However, i was using quite a bit of pressure ( i wanted to get that edge straight in a hurry you know)

I put the blade aside for a few weeks and started working on it again yeasterday, this time with wery little pressure and i could finally see some progress, does this make sense? Anyway, i think i will do as you say and use the 8k side quite a lot and reduce the use of the 4k side and see if i can get that blade nice and straight.



Terje

Yea, makes sense. A lot of this is just practice. Depending on the grind only a light touch will accomplish much. I think you have to pick a pressure threshold, and anything greater just bends out the edge off the hone.

The technique of using the 8K for basic sharpening is very similar (read the same as) the pyramid technique. With test shaves added you can cut (4K) then smooth (8K), then test in little iterations without microchipping.

I have been working some more on that Dovo inox now, i was more patient this time around. I used the microscope and the hht and tpt frequently during the process. I also reduced the laps on the 4k side and concentrated mostly on the
8k.
The interesting thing is, i have been able to pass the hht on the 4k on this razor but never on the 8k. I guess i have been afraid of overhoning and maybe stopped too early. So this time i gave it quite a number of laps on the 8k, a lot more than i have normally done. and after i while i really could see and feel the difference.
It passed the hht and tpt and even clipped a fair amount of armhairs straight of the hone. I've never been able to do that with this razor before. i finished with 20 laps on 0.5 diamond paste, stropped it (30-40 laps, leather only) and tested. And would you believe, it shaved like a dream. Very little pulling and a pretty nice smooth glide.
So i guess stainless steel differ more from carbon steel than i was aware of when it comes to hardness and that taking good time on the 8k really paid off.
I think it can be sharper still, but i'm awaiting a Lynn honed razor, also a stainless Dovo. So i will wait until that arrives and use as a benchmark.
Thanks for your help.

Terje

The best advice in honing was from Lynn "less strokes is better" I wont use any pressure or more then 5 strokes total on the 4k even when im doing restoration work for that i have a slow cutting 1000 grit stone.

I think that is were i made my mistake. I was working it only on the 4k side to hone out a nick and got impatient and increased the pressure. With lots of microchipping as a result, thus i had to spend a lot of time on the 8k to smooth out the edge.
I also might add that i have had good result when touching up my carbon razors, but honing out the nick in the inox and putting a nice shaving edge on it was a completely different story
Well anyway, lesson learned. At least on that blade



Terje