Thread: passing hht off of norton 4k

I have seen a few post where people say you should be able to pass the hht just sharpening off of the 4k side of the norton before moving to the 8k side. is this true for some razors, or all razors. and what would the average number of strokes be figuring in all of the variables ( decent edge, type of steel, size of razor, bevel, correct honing angle.) I have tried the pyramid with little success, and this is something I want to eventually master if possible. Any advice would be welcome.

If you have a microscope I would use the 4K to set a good visible bevel as a goal. Think of the 4K and 8K together working to create a solid smoothed bevel and edge together. Thus pyramiding.

Once you attain that, smooth and finish the edge on 8K and then move to the 4K by exception if you think the razor needs to have a sharper bevel.

Thats a little better strategy.

To answer your question, all razors, and the average number of strokes doesn't exist because it depends on the amount of pressure you use. You should atleast come close to the HHT off the 4K, but you can always add a 4K stroke afterward as long as you finish polishing the edge. I think you may have trouble though using this as a universal guide. In other words use the HHT as a potential objective not as a test that permits you to proceed.

The problem I would be concerned with is you understanding the amount of 8K strokes needed for polishing and getting too close with the 4K and not giving yourself enough room to finish without overhoning. That probably doesn't make much sense, but thats the skinny.

But getting the razor as close as you can with 4K by watching in the scope for a good edge is helpful to me. Once I get microchiping I've taken it as far as it will go, regardless of the HHT or not.

I don't think getting a razor to pass the HHT off 4k is difficult, the challenge though may be smoothing out the bevel on a razor that has been taken farther than it should be in order to pass. So I suggest working in that direction but be mindful of microchips along the way and you can always add a 4K in later. I call that "big pyramiding".

Don't think about needing to pass, think about achieving the most you can to include sharpness and bevel perfection together. The HHT may, or may not be a success but the action of the razor as it attempts the HHT should give you some feedback on how "tight" (sharp) your bevel is at the edge.

Sorry if that sounds complicated.

You can pass hanging hair test even from a grit as low as 800. After that, it's all about keeping the edge sharp, and polishing it...

Nenad

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

If you have a microscope I would use the 4K to set a good visible bevel as a goal. Think of the 4K and 8K together working to create a solid smoothed bevel and edge together. Thus pyramiding.

Once you attain that, smooth and finish the edge on 8K and then move to the 4K by exception if you think the razor needs to have a sharper bevel.

Thats a little better strategy.

To answer your question, all razors, and the average number of strokes doesn't exist because it depends on the amount of pressure you use. You should atleast come close to the HHT off the 4K, but you can always add a 4K stroke afterward as long as you finish polishing the edge. I think you may have trouble though using this as a universal guide. In other words use the HHT as a potential objective not as a test that permits you to proceed.

The problem I would be concerned with is you understanding the amount of 8K strokes needed for polishing and getting too close with the 4K and not giving yourself enough room to finish without overhoning. That probably doesn't make much sense, but thats the skinny.

But getting the razor as close as you can with 4K by watching in the scope for a good edge is helpful to me. Once I get microchiping I've taken it as far as it will go, regardless of the HHT or not.

I don't think getting a razor to pass the HHT off 4k is difficult, the challenge though may be smoothing out the bevel on a razor that has been taken farther than it should be in order to pass. So I suggest working in that direction but be mindful of microchips along the way and you can always add a 4K in later. I call that "big pyramiding".

Don't think about needing to pass, think about achieving the most you can to include sharpness and bevel perfection together. The HHT may, or may not be a success but the action of the razor as it attempts the HHT should give you some feedback on how "tight" (sharp) your bevel is at the edge.

Sorry if that sounds complicated.

This is fascinating, Alan. One of the best explanations of pyramiding I've seen.

Am I reading this right that you can overhone on the 4K? I go for HHT (or damn close) off the 4K, and then I go to the Belgians and I don't think I've ever overhoned. I always sorta thought overhoning was a risk of the Norton 8K (I don't actually have one), not so much the lower grits.

Yes, you can overhone on 4K very easily.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yes, you can overhone on 4K very easily.

Doesn't any wire edge then come off on the next higher grit? Sorry if I'm being very stupid.

The 4K produces catasrophic damage when overhoning. Chipping and bevel destruction, the 8K creates wires. Different grit, completely different problems.

I'll echo what these guys have said. It's possible to pass the HHT off the lower grits--I've done it on a 1K hone. But it doesn't work for every razor and every hone. I usually use the thumbnail test at this level to check my progress.

Josh

what would you guys recommend for a microscope, wal mart has one for about $30 that does 100x, 400x, and 900x. I went to the local radio shack, but they dont seem to carry anything but hi def t.v.s and direct tv dishes anymore, and maybe some cell phones. Thanks for the help Allen, I understand what you said, Im not good at reading the feel of the edge though, it seems to be completely different than sharpening pocket knives or kitchen cutlery.

I like the RadioShack microscope, but I"m used to it. You have to ask for it and call ahead. You can get them online too. I recommend any 100x max with a light source. You can do a search, some guys have found way better equipment. I'm kinda simple when it comes to microscopes. I'm a little embarrased even owning one. They rock when your trying to teach someone how to hone though.