Thread: Is honing really that difficult?

Honing a straight is fairly difficult and takes patience and concentration. One thing I'll say is make sure you get hones that are fairly unanimously approved of here on the forum if you're thinking about taking up the "hobby".
Don't be fooled by the Amazon Specials. Stick to the brand named synthetics and/or well-known naturals until you have mastered a few naturals. That would be my advice, to set yourself up for success from the start.

Originally Posted by Badgerstate

Hello all. So, now that Ive gotten into straights, Im looking into honing. Now, Ive read a lot of people who say that you should leave honing to the pros but Ive watched a bunch of Youtube videos on it and honestly, it doesnt look that difficult.
So, now Im looking into getting a 220/1000 stone, 4000/8000 stone, 12000 stone and a lapping stone. At first, I was only going to get a 4000/8000 stone but then I read that you want the 1000 to set the bevel and want the 12000 for final polishing.
Am I absolutely insane for wanting to learn honing? I mean, it just doesnt look that difficult and it seems kind of silly to send my razors out for honing when I could just do it myself.
Thoughts?

I too jumped into this head first. I purchased a set of hones very shortly after purchasing my first straight razor, which was professionally honed. I have always loved sharpening knives and believed this would be an extension of that. It is, but different. If it is something you want to do, go for it. I have never used a natural so I cannot give any insight there but would listen to the advice from those who do and stick with synthetic stones. They do a great job and are much more affordable.

As others have said, no need for a 220 stone. I would very possibly do more damage than good. DMT 325 for lapping is a great choice. From my research, you can't go wrong with either the Norton or Naniwa line. Both will get you there. I ended up with the Chosera 1k, Naniwa SS 5/8/12. I would say for me, I like the feel/feedback of the Chosera better than the SS. Don't get me wrong the SS perform wonderfully but the Chosera just "feel" better, and are much more costly mind you.

Also, I would recommend you stay away from stainless steel blades while learning. They can a bit more challenging to get the edge correct as they tend to be much harder than carbon steel. Amazon provided me with two gold dollar razors, roughly $10/ea. I did find a video from drmatt357, youtube, on how to remedy bad razor geometry which was huge in my journey, links below. Both GD had geometry problems which had to be fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0e3irOytXQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoMWRVAY-I4

Enjoy the toys! Enjoy the journey!!

Rich

Originally Posted by Badgerstate

Hello all. So, now that Ive gotten into straights, Im looking into honing. Now, Ive read a lot of people who say that you should leave honing to the pros but Ive watched a bunch of Youtube videos on it and honestly, it doesnt look that difficult.
So, now Im looking into getting a 220/1000 stone, 4000/8000 stone, 12000 stone and a lapping stone. At first, I was only going to get a 4000/8000 stone but then I read that you want the 1000 to set the bevel and want the 12000 for final polishing.
Am I absolutely insane for wanting to learn honing? I mean, it just doesnt look that difficult and it seems kind of silly to send my razors out for honing when I could just do it myself.
Thoughts?

Everyone who hones had to begin somewhere.
Watching videos is good and helpful.
However, before you throw a bunch of money into this, find someone in your area that can provide you with some hand-on teaching.
That will save you much time, money, and frustration.
You can also acquire some nice, inexpensive, vintage razors on ebay to practice on.
Do not buy the Chinese stuff - too thick, hard, and poorly ground to practice on.
Best of luck.

JMHO, skip the 220/1k and the flattening stone. Substitute with a Chosera 1k and a DMT 325.
Also a Naniwa SS 12k is the most popular and consistent. Nothing wrong with the Norton 4/8.
YMMV

Most razors have bad geometry, or at least some challenging aspect to it.

Grinding down the spine in any area so that you can hone the razor is destructive and lazy in my opinion, and not cost effective or in the interests of preserving expensive and/or rare vintage razors.

The reason there is so much discussion of honing, is that it can be challenging, and the "honing gymnastics" are one of the major aspects which separate the beginners from the expert.

Take any geometrically perfect razor, and anyone with the fundamentals of honing down pat will be fine.

A twisted, warped, razor, with bad steel, is something that would be extremely challenging for me, would probably take me several hours to get to end of job.

For a honemaster like Glen, Lynn, Tom, Wolfpack, Karl, Jamie or many others, that would be "Monday" for them, and while it would be challenging for them, they've seen it, been there, got the coffee mug, t-shirt and know exactly what to do to get the razor to "shave ready" in probably about an hour - that's the "learning curve" that's spoken of.

Frankly, I'd advise taking the time to learn, as each razor is essentially unique, no two are completely alike, so each time you hone a razor, it's a different experience, and won't go the same as the last one. I've honed a razor in 30 minutes and had it perfect, while also having to have multiple hours long sessions over several days to get a razor ready, while not smashing my stones and destroying the razor - that's why you'll hear, "walk away" frequently when it get's frustrating.

Personally, Dr. Matt's video's are not the way to learn how to manage the large variance of razors you'll come across, but whatever floats your boat...just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Phrank

Personally, Dr. Matt's video's are not the way to learn how to manage the large variance of razors you'll come across, but whatever floats your boat...just my opinion.

Glad you said that. There is more than one way to skin a cat and Drmatt357's way probably works, for all I know. To me grinding on the spine to correct geometry is the nuclear option rather than using some learned finesse. You are right though, whatever floats your boat.

Bob

In the event of honing a vintage or "nice" razor, Phrank I agree. Using a $10.00 gold dollar to begin to learn, I see no harm in getting the geometry correct to improve your changes of success. It allowed me to get a feel of what properly setting the bevel felt like all the way to a shave ready edge without fighting a geometry issue. One could also spend a bit more and get a learning razor without these issues. Am I using this process on any other razors, No. Does this constitute lazy, not in my opinion. I do feel that it increases the chance of success while learning and if that $10 razor ends up in the garbage, oh well...

Could this advice be misguided, perhaps. I do not claim to be an expert and have lots to learn myself.

Originally Posted by BobH

Glad you said that. There is more than one way to skin a cat and Drmatt357's way probably works, for all I know. To me grinding on the spine to correct geometry is the nuclear option rather than using some learned finesse. You are right though, whatever floats your boat.

Bob

That's the way I see it as well. You can't put metal back on if you correct to much. I would never do that to a vintage razor

If you're handy with tools and you've made some stuff by hand, and you've learned to deal with the weird geometry of your own face when shaving with a straight razor, then you can probably learn honing and find it rewarding. It's a discipline and requires patience and compromises with the real world -- just like learning to shave with a straight razor.

Learning from someone who knows how, by spending a few hours with that person and getting a lesson, is the best way to do it.

I know there are a bunch of forum members in the great state of Ohio -- I'm sure many of them would be willing to give you a lesson in person!

Originally Posted by Robini

In the event of honing a vintage or "nice" razor, Phrank I agree. Using a $10.00 gold dollar to begin to learn, I see no harm in getting the geometry correct to improve your changes of success. It allowed me to get a feel of what properly setting the bevel felt like all the way to a shave ready edge without fighting a geometry issue. One could also spend a bit more and get a learning razor without these issues. Am I using this process on any other razors, No. Does this constitute lazy, not in my opinion. I do feel that it increases the chance of success while learning and if that $10 razor ends up in the garbage, oh well...

Could this advice be misguided, perhaps. I do not claim to be an expert and have lots to learn myself.

Now that you have explained it that is no so bad. I just would not like to see a beginner think that is the way to go on very razor. OTH a razor with problems is likely to be, besides very frustrating, one of the best teachers if you persevere with it.

Bob