Thread: Is honing really that difficult?

Originally Posted by Steel

As I sit here smoking some Happy Bogie in a Ser Jacopo contemplating your comparison I am reminded by my own experience that the complete opposite is also true. My very first time honing, I touched up a Dovo on an inexpensive Chinese Guangxi stone and it was a huge success. My third hone job was a Gold Dollar that I honed without an issue using synthetic knife stones and the Guangxi. My “benchmark” edge that I used for a comparison was a Double Edge razor blade. Although I was not to that level yet I was well on my way and obtaining comfortable shaves. I had the odd razor with geometry issues that puzzled me and forced me to grow but all in all my journey was dominated by success. Is that unusual? You would think so by the number of posts made by people asking for help vs those that tout success but maybe that is not totally accurate either. I mean, the forum is here to help those with issues so of course you will have more people posting their honing problems than not. Also, the “hone of the day” thread is full of success stories.
Honing is challenging but I don’t think it is accurate to say it takes the average person over 90 years to learn the skill.

Well said...if your first experiences honing are on relatively straightforward razors - and you've done your homework, shouldn't be that hard to start producing comfortable edges right away.

First one I did with my Norton 4/8 - set the bevel on the 4k, then 8k, then 12k turned out well.

Next one I did crashed and burned, twisted razor....but pretty much agree with everything you state, sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you...now, I usually get the bear, the only factor is how long does it take me to get him.....

Originally Posted by Phrank

Well said...if your first experiences honing are on relatively straightforward razors - and you've done your homework, shouldn't be that hard to start producing comfortable edges right away.

For me this is the whole key. Do your homework! This sr adventure is a hobby. These guys who jump in, buy gear without homework are foolish. When I stared 2.5 years ago I studied, watched videos on all aspects for at least 30 days before buying anything. Why wouldn't anyone do same? When I started buying I was ready, knew generally what I wanted. I jumped in with both feet. Haven't looked back. Shaving and honing at the same time. None of this is hard or voodoo. PATIENCE AND PRACTICE, homework and the right tools. Let me say this too: too many guys want to get by on the cheap. This isn't an inexpensive hobby. Get the best tools, you won't be sorry.

Btw, re-watching all of Dr. Matt's videos. Great stuff. The BEST explanations on video.

I think it's good that Dr. Matt explains what he's doing and why.

But.. the reason people take issue with him on honing is that the "It's not straight? I'll MAKE it straight" approach will just destroy some beautiful razors, especially old ones, and there's another way to get a nice sharp edge without destroying the razor.

For example, I have an early Henry Sears wedge with a nice big blade and completely crazy spine geometry. There is just no way to do what he says without destroying the blade. To bring the whole spine in to the narrowest width I would have to get remove so much metal that it'd be a regrind. Another example -- I have 6/8" hollow ground razor with a curved spine that will just never be straight. If I did what Dr. Matt says I'm not sure what would be left. Maybe the end of the blade would have to go to keep the profile. But it's very possible to hone it with the right kinds of strokes, keep the profile, and it shaves wonderfully.

Just by learning other ways of honing, and being patient, these pieces handed down to us from the past can be as beautiful as they ever were and be useful to us. We don't have to force everything into a preconceived form. Some things just aren't worth it, of course, and everybody has to make their own choices on this, but often by paying attention to the piece and thinking about how best to work with it and demanding a bit more from ourselves we can end up with something beautiful that works as intended.

Yea, pretty much ^. OTH if someone wants to possibly destroy their razor they are free to do so.

Bob

If a razor is so warped it can't be honed then it's one that should've been melted down in the first place but grinding down on the spine of every razor with a slight rock when placed flat is what I call doing a Ripley.

Thanks fr that..I needed a break!
~Richard

Originally Posted by jmabuse

I think it's good that Dr. Matt explains what he's doing and why.

But.. the reason people take issue with him on honing is that the "It's not straight? I'll MAKE it straight" approach will just destroy some beautiful razors, especially old ones, and there's another way to get a nice sharp edge without destroying the razor.

For example, I have an early Henry Sears wedge with a nice big blade and completely crazy spine geometry. There is just no way to do what he says without destroying the blade. To bring the whole spine in to the narrowest width I would have to get remove so much metal that it'd be a regrind. Another example -- I have 6/8" hollow ground razor with a curved spine that will just never be straight. If I did what Dr. Matt says I'm not sure what would be left. Maybe the end of the blade would have to go to keep the profile. But it's very possible to hone it with the right kinds of strokes, keep the profile, and it shaves wonderfully.

Just by learning other ways of honing, and being patient, these pieces handed down to us from the past can be as beautiful as they ever were and be useful to us. We don't have to force everything into a preconceived form. Some things just aren't worth it, of course, and everybody has to make their own choices on this, but often by paying attention to the piece and thinking about how best to work with it and demanding a bit more from ourselves we can end up with something beautiful that works as intended.

Agreed - that's the whole, "doing your homework" part I was referring to....destroying your tools (razor) is never something I was taught, and was never acceptable when the practiced application of skill required was considered, "too hard" or "too difficult", or took, "too much time" to learn properly or simply do - period.

Or as my father or grandfather would say, "lazy", they had another couple of words, but I'll leave them out.....

Phrank-'IF' the like button was still here I'd have given you one!!

Originally Posted by Phrank

Agreed - that's the whole, "doing your homework" part I was referring to....destroying your tools (razor) is never something I was taught, and was never acceptable when the practiced application of skill required was considered, "too hard" or "too difficult", or took, "too much time" to learn properly or simply do - period.

Or as my father or grandfather would say, "lazy", they had another couple of words, but I'll leave them out.....

Have to say I "Like" your post for lack of a Like button

Bob

Originally Posted by Steel

As I sit here smoking some Happy Bogie in a Ser Jacopo contemplating your comparison I am reminded by my own experience that the complete opposite is also true. My very first time honing, I touched up a Dovo on an inexpensive Chinese Guangxi stone and it was a huge success. My third hone job was a Gold Dollar that I honed without an issue using synthetic knife stones and the Guangxi. My “benchmark” edge that I used for a comparison was a Double Edge razor blade. Although I was not to that level yet I was well on my way and obtaining comfortable shaves. I had the odd razor with geometry issues that puzzled me and forced me to grow but all in all my journey was dominated by success. Is that unusual? You would think so by the number of posts made by people asking for help vs those that tout success but maybe that is not totally accurate either. I mean, the forum is here to help those with issues so of course you will have more people posting their honing problems than not. Also, the “hone of the day” thread is full of success stories.
Honing is challenging but I don’t think it is accurate to say it takes the average person over 90 years to learn the skill.

Some of you are missing my point. Oh well.....