Thread: My experience with the BBW

Being from Belgium, I have a fondness for Coticules / BBW natural combo stones.

It begun when I inherited my great grandfather's razor and his father's razor and his stone. (a nice natural combo Coticule)

Noticeably the yellow Coticule side as well as the BBW side were heavily used. My best guess now is that is was either heavily used with oil or dry.

Since I've lapped that stone over a decade ago, I can't tell for sure. Either way, it intrigued me.

I bought myself a Coticule about a decade ago and it's one from the La Nouvelle Veine layer (love that layer btw), unfortunately the yellow part came loose and broke off, I'm only left with the BBW side. When this stone was still intact I honed my first bought "dream" razor on it, a vintage Henckels. I remember having a lot of trouble with the yellow part, and reading online I was not alone. I switched to the BBW side with dilutions and to this day got one of the best edges I've ever put on a razor (being my first experience with Coticules, I think I got lucky).

Ever since I've been looking to mimic, but wasn't able.

Yesterday I took 3 different Coti/BBW natural combos and decided to try something different.
One from La Nouvelle Veine layer, one from the La Veinette layer and one vintage reminding me of the La Grise / Nouvelle veine layer.

I used them dry.

I tried the Coticule side first, it worked faster, but not smoother / finer. That said, with a previously set bevel intact, I dulled the edge on glass and did regular half strokes, x-strokes and the edge came back very quickly. I tried finishing on the stone with backstrokes spine leading and it was good, but there was room for improvement.

I then switched to the BBW and it felt much finer than the Coticule and also left a much finer and smoother edge, while honing you could feel this.
Spent enough time on the BBW until the edge felt smooth and finished using backwards circles, very low pressure.

I used 2 olders Henckels and 1 Grelot and used each on a different BBW.

Shave test was amazingly good. This was the most effortless shave I've ever had, finally rivaling my edge from a BBW I got a decade ago.
And all 3 razors shaved almost the same with little to no difference noticed.

The shave was enormously skin-friendly while being VERY sharp, I had a no prep shave, just lathered, these BBWs are an outstanding piece of rock.
The edge has a little room for improvement, it wasn't harsh, but felt a little "crisp", I might finish on oil for the next try.

BUT the sharpness and skin friendliness is unrivaled for me, and I was amazed the BBW left a much smoother finish (although after reading some studies that shouldn't come as a bug surprise as a BBW without slurry is much slower and finer IIRC)


1. When I said a decade ago my experience with that BBW stones, people kept holding on to the fact that the Yellow Coticule side was THE side to finish on and that I was a heathen
later on came the BBW study test and people couldn't discern the two from another in a blind study test, the BBW did actually just as good (if not better)
I also remember an old fella say that the BBW side is the "magical" side, I have to agree with him.

2. The BBW is much finer using it this way, I've test shaved this method over 100 times and always finished on the Coticule, "because that's how it was supposed to be", which was always almost there, but not quite.

3. these stones works at a decent speed dry Coti > BBW in speed and also leave a SMOOTH edge, where in smoothness BBW > Coticule

4. It works for me, this one hits all my preferences which isn't universally liked, so ymmv

5. When honing on the Coticule, I can feel where's it's smooth and where it's not, I then switch to the BBW and notice it picks up where the Coticule left and refines even more, I was able to feel this very well. Shave test revealed I was able to get a much sharper and smoother edge out of the BBWs. So spending enough time on the BBW was key and should feel completely smooth from heel to toe. (My toes needed extra work to get there)

6. I first did half strokes and x-strokes on the BBW until it felt universally smooth and then continued with circles and when that felt good I did very light pressure circles, as I were stropping it. It did take a little while to smooth out.
Finish was done using circles, going away from me clockwise so the edge is trailing and spine is leading, towards me counter clockwise spine leading as well.


YMMV

Couple of questions. How long is 'a little while'? Can anyone pipe in and explain why/what the advantage of using a spine leading stroke may be? And why/how a dry stone may lead to a keener or smoother edge? I agree with Tristan, this is unorthodox.

Originally Posted by cau

Couple of questions. How long is 'a little while'? Can anyone pipe in and explain why/what the advantage of using a spine leading stroke may be? And why/how a dry stone may lead to a keener or smoother edge? I agree with Tristan, this is unorthodox.

A 'little while' is hard to describe, two of the hones I use are very short and narrow, about 4 inches long.
It didn't take all that long, I think I spend about around 8 minutes on the BBW coming from an average edge.

Coming off the BBW dry the HHT is always superb, the toe and heel sometimes didn't cut it cleanly off, so I spent time on the BBW until it did. And that's the little while. I did rely on the HHT to tell me something.
The entire edge is cleanly cutting hair at the slightest touch on the edge of the razor (without stropping). Even a simple arm / leg shave test gave me a smoother cut from the BBW than the Coticule.

A good stropping followed and great results were found in the shave test. I think sometimes we complicate things and they get more complicated and confusing.
Look at the edge under a microscope coming off a Coticule and BBW and it'll probably wouldn't LOOK great. Using my loupe there certainly are a lot more scratches to see and a less mirror finish opposed to synthetics.

I'm not sure why a dry hone works better for me, the BBW on just water is so slow it hardly does anything (or so I have read), I did try finishing on plain water before, but that didn't work for me either.
I'm not sure if the vein plays a big role (their Coticule counterparts are known for their excellent finishing properties), but they do feel like glass and are a pleasure to hone on, they also feel less 'gritty' than their Coticule counterpart while honing.

The BBWs I use have been used a bit and feel smoother than they did freshly lapped.

It is indeed unorthodox and people cringe when I say I hone dry.

Some hones do work better in the dry state.Coticule/BBW are stones that have an individual personality. You have found a method that works well for you and would be worth the trial for someone else with the combination or single Belgians'. I have found some stones to work well dry also. Only trial will find which one work for ech person.
Thanks for the suggestions!
~Richard

I do remember a very experienced member to use his La Grise dry as well, BBW & Coti side and also got great results, so indeed gotta figure out what works and which stones do the trick

I've found just about every natural I've used, works well going from wet to dry.

But I ve always maintained that most any of the razor stones get us there, with not much difference in the shave, you are more comfortable with this method so you will use this method to its final finish. I have the same confidence with my Nani 12k so I get the perfect shave from them. You have gotten to where we all want to be, you've found hat works for you. Thanks. Tc

Originally Posted by cau

Couple of questions. How long is 'a little while'? Can anyone pipe in and explain why/what the advantage of using a spine leading stroke may be? And why/how a dry stone may lead to a keener or smoother edge? I agree with Tristan, this is unorthodox.

From what I have seen, Murray Carter is the one who champions both spine leading honing and also stropping on newspaper. His techniques are somewhat controversial in the straight razor community. He is a trained Japanese bladesmith operating as Carter Cutlery, so he does have reasoning behind his methods. I am not in a position to either endorsing or challenging his techniques. I believe they have some merit, especially when used on certain high grit synthetic or natural stones. If you are interested in his techniques, look up the CarterCutlery channel on YouTube.

Where I got the idea from is Coticule.be

In their BBW - a study about its aptness for razor sharpening

They finished the razors with 50 X-strokes in stropping direction (i.e., edge trailing).

That and I actually enjoy doing these strokes, they feel good in my hand

Originally Posted by RayClem

From what I have seen, Murray Carter is the one who champions both spine leading honing and also stropping on newspaper....snip...I believe they have some merit, especially when used on certain high grit synthetic or natural stones. If you are interested in his techniques, look up the CarterCutlery channel on YouTube.

From early experiences as a butcher and 3rd chef, I was taught that an edge trailing stroke developed a wire/ feather edge. That means I would have some difficulty with the idea of edge trailing honing even though it could be useful to some others without the bias.
JMO
~Richard

I feel that dry honing works well with a trailing edge.

My thoughts are, that your burnishing the hone, and leaving metal in the pores of the stone, reducing the effects of the abrasives. I too, have also noticed the keenness of a BBW over the yellow side of coti, combos.

I learned about using the spine leading strokes, while honing knives n such, years ago. Seems to work for razors as well, though I prefer a Escher/Thurigan, over the Coties.