Thread: 'X' Pattern

Total newbie question here:

I've heard many people talk about honing (or stropping) their str8's in an 'X' pattern. I have also seen a few video clips / animations depicting this, so I totally understand the concept. However, it seems to me that this would lead to uneven sharpening of the blade, as the heal of the blade has very little contact with the hone while the point has considerably more.

Any insight on this would be helpful!

- Ken -

This is a very common question here, and a very good one; in fact I remember asking this same question J. In theory you are right; however, in practice it does not really matter. One theory as to why this is not an issue is that the heal receives more pressure because it is closer to where the weight of your hand is. The heal of the blade gets slightly more pressure and the toe gets slightly more contact with the hone but the least amount of pressure so it roughly evens out in the end. Of course this theory only holds up if you are a one handed honer which to my knowledge all of the honemeisters are. In my experience thick and thin hones work equally well and will produce the same edge. It really comes down to what feel you prefer, what sizes the stone is available in, and how much you are willing to spend.

And to add to heavyduty's reply, you can mitigate the heel/toe effect by adopting a "rolling" X pattern - while the blade is making an X pattern in the horizontal plane, you also make a "U" pattern in the vertical plane.

Some people say it's only good for smiling blades, but I've had good results using it on non-smilers too. YMMV.

James.

Honing, in theory I think, is pretty simple. And when your thinking about setting a bevel and even just basic sharpening you can go straight down the hone. When your really trying to apply the fin to the edge you want the striations aligned evenly (and with an opposing angle on each side of course) for each stroke and if you run down the hone angling the razor it gets wavy because your wrist would need to compensate. With an x pattern your just pulling more and twisting less. Although it sounds hard, in practice its pretty easy.

An x pattern also compensates for the dishing that can occur in the center of the stone a little better too.

You'll see the big wide stones in factories being used to set the bevel and (for the most part) sharpen a razor. Many personal users didn't typically have 3 inch stones.

I think that pressure distribution theory may have some merit as well.

I use an x pattern a lot in honing but not always in the beginning of the process.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

... adopting a "rolling" X pattern - while the blade is making an X pattern in the horizontal plane, you also make a "U" pattern in the vertical plane.

You lost me here! Can you explain this in a little more detail? Perhaps closer to an upside "J" then a "U"? also; I asume horizonal is left to right, and vertical is up and back. Forgive me, it's my very literal, overactive mind in action here.

Thank, Jim

Steve

I'm with Zepplin here and would like to learn more about the "U's" and "J's". I'm guessing the stroke being described is a rotation with the wrist as a pivot point and while moving the the blade forth or back on the plane of the stone, and while dragging it in the "X" pattern to get the entire edge dragged across the stone, one pivots the blade to get the toe to lead the stroke - all the while maintaining careful contact with the stone so that all movement stays on the plane of the stone surface.

close?????, Bruce

Originally Posted by zepplin

You lost me here! Can you explain this in a little more detail? Perhaps closer to an upside "J" then a "U"? also; I asume horizonal is left to right, and vertical is up and back. Forgive me, it's my very literal, overactive mind in action here.

Originally Posted by Bruce

I'm with Zepplin here and would like to learn more about the "U's" and "J's". I'm guessing the stroke being described is a rotation with the wrist as a pivot point and while moving the the blade forth or back on the plane of the stone, and while dragging it in the "X" pattern to get the entire edge dragged across the stone, one pivots the blade to get the toe to lead the stroke - all the while maintaining careful contact with the stone so that all movement stays on the plane of the stone surface.

You guys aren't the first. It's very simply, but oddly very difficult to explain in words. Superfly did a picture once. It's one of the great gifts to this forum, and should be a sticky. Click here.

Okay, let me take a shot at this:

Starting at the lower end of the hone, with the heel leading, and the blade at an angle, (the tip being lower than the heel) - I slide the razor upward, at the same time pulling the blade to the right, and while performing this motion, I slide the tip upward eventually passing the heel and ending up in the left hand corner(or middle) of the top of the hone, with the toe ending up leading the heel - and ending up with the same angle as I started at the bottom. and, of course I lift the blade edge before completing this stroke, turn the spine to the same angle as on the upstroke and repeate this action on my downstroke. God, I feel so stupid trying to explain this.

Is this a rolling motion?

* Note: There are times when I want to start to with the heel positioned more toward the bottom left, or middle, of the hone, thus, giving me more honing on the heel, but because most razors have a shoulder, I'll get a "bumpty - bump" when I cross over the edge of the hone with the heel section. I get paranoid, thinking "I've screwed up something". A lot of times I start this supposed "rolling motion" (IMO), with the heel on the very right edge of the hone, with the sholder off the hone to the right. - thus, leaving little to not much time for the heel on the hone. To correct this, I will do a "straight up" movement at this beginning of the stroke and then swing to the right the last half of the stroke. * I am honestly trying to figure this all out!! - and I don't know if I'm doing this wrong, or what. That's one reason why I like honing a "sholderless" razor more.

I would appreciate some help from you honing experts, and any suggestions you may have in regard to this "rolling motion" of mine -

Yea, I feel stupid!

Steve

Um... OK... so I'll just stick with the basic 'X' or straight across for now...

- Ken -

Did you click on superfly's pictures?

To visualize the rolling method, don't think about where the razor is on the hone – left, right, middle, whatever. Focus your thoughts on which part of the razor edge is in contact with the hone at a given moment.

A smiling blade does not lay perfectly flat on the hone. When you place it on the hone, the center part of the edge is in contact; the heel and toe are hovering infinitesimally above the hone. When you "rock" it, the heel and toe come into full contact, each in turn. The "rocking" feeling may be subtle or pronounced, depending on the smile.

Now, imagine a 3"-blade going straight down the middle of a 3" hone – no X'ing. But over the course of that straight-down honing stroke, a single heel-to-toe rocking motion is executed. This rocking would not be detectable from a birds-eye view. A sharp pair of eyes in a front-row seat on the 50-yard line of the honing field would see it. Mostly, though, it's something you feel.

In reality, lots of guys combine the X-stroke with the rock'n'roll, but it's easier to visualize what's happening if you first picture a straight-down stroke.