Thread: Bevel pics

I was afraid you were going to say this about the stria from the 2K. I noticed it was never going away and was there to the end. Some circles I will try. and I'm always afraid of putting pressure on the edge. I guess this is why the 2K stria is still up to the edge even after all the other stones. Dirty strop? Yep, it is dirty but I didn't think you would be able to tell that. Damn!
Thanks for your criticism. Its what I needed and was looking for. I just got back from putting up the antenna so I will give this razor another go on the stones. I'd rather learn to get it closer to correct than to shave with something that might do the job but not be right.

More pics to come I guess.

I can’t help but agree with Marty on his advice. I am not yet an Arkie user and have nothing to add there.
My progression is a little different, but the magic happens on your first two hones. I do quite a few finishing laps on those hones, just to reduce the depth of the stria from my pressure strokes that were removing steel fast. My finishing strokes are very light and slow. I may do as many as 50, depending on what I see in my loupe. Also what I am looking for in my loupe is to see the apex from the side starting to straighten out, loosing its toothy or fuzzy edge. Once I leave my 5K it is almost entirely about having the bevel with a nice even polish. I have had a few razors that looked less than perfect in the loupe because of stray scratches and that’s fine, as long as looking at the apex from the side, it is nice and straight with no fuzzy look and no teeth.

Euclid440's comments above are a great example of the kind of thoughtful, in depth feedback that makes this site so helpful. Gasman's response is a great example of how to accept feedback gracefully, assuming positive intent and thus benefiting from it. Good stuff!

New pics. I'm just going to post the last few. I went back to the 1K. Then 3K, 5K, 8K, 12K, 20K finished with 30 laps on the Arkie. The bevel is a mirror thru the loupe hard to look at, but in the pics, thru the microscope the bevel looks dull and grey. Don't know what that is about but...

I used more torque to get more work on the bevel close to the edge and I can see two sections of scratches on the bevels from this. Did the circles and I think it does look much better but, I still have a few stray scratches as Rez said. The edge does look straighter from the side. This is a plus. I feel I'm getting closer but don't know if it would get much better than this. I want perfection, but maybe there is a limit to it?

I went to the 20K and then wasn't happy, so I went back to 8K and worked up a third time. No strop pic this time.

8K


12K


20K


Arkie


Looks to me that the 20K really makes bad spots show a lot. And the Arkie added a lot of scratches.

Damn, The 20K pic is fuzzy at the edge!

Deep scratches that go right into the edge can cause issues. I have a hard time looking through pictures at this high of a magnification, because I only ever go to 60x and I am quite happy with 30x too. They look not bad as far as I can tell. The 8 and the 12 look like too much pressure. My finishing strokes are quite light. When I first started someone with a lot of experience said, if you go light enough that water is going under the blade, you are no longer honing, then add just enough pressure to clear the water and that is as light of a stroke you can make and still be honing. That is what I strive for in my finishing strokes, and they are the ones that get rid of the fuzz for me. Maybe if I used that much magnification my edges would be fuzzy too. The torque of the blade and the lightness of the stroke when used with consistency is what got me to the edge that I really like. Your arkie edge looks good, I would shave with that.
Marty will be along soon and is a better judge of this magnification

I'm all ears when it comes to what Marty has to say as I just had my shower and test shave and....
Keen and Comfort! I really wasn't expecting any comfort from this edge but it was there. I even broke out the Alum because it went so well and got nothing from the Alum. Amazing.
If I can make my edges even better I'm all for it. But if this is the best I can get I'd still be as happy as a pig in ... Well, you know what I mean.

The bevel didn't look as good as I thought it should have looked, but I guess it was good enough. I'd still rather get an even cleaner looking bevel but I think this will take some more practice. And I see what you mean Shaun when it comes to getting the first couple stones as right as possible. I was fighting the stria from the lower stones. I think this is a very important part of honing. All of the steps are! From being damn sure you got a good bevel set, Making sure you have worked the lower grit stria as fine and even as possible, to the finish stone and being easy on it.

The way the Arkie did to the bevel didn't make me happy at all. I was a little bummed out on what it looked like, But I found it and/or a straighter edge made a difference in the comfort level.

I still want to hear from Marty and have him slap me down. Telling me what I still did wrong, but this is what makes me learn and grow in this crazy hobby of ours.

We hadn't had many edge and bevel pics lately so I was happy to post some and to show others who might be struggling with honing that it can be learned. It's not magic! There are solid facts and science to honing. This is what I've been looking for. Sorry for going on so much, but I'm excited that I just made a big jump to the better in my honing abilities.

I’m glad the shave went well. It looked like it was more or less there. If you do not do a series of lightening pressure strokes at the end of a home, it takes a very long time to get the deep scratches out on the next hone. It is all about taking the time and having the patience to be ready for the next step. You are doing fine. I wish I had the ability to post pictures but my tech is not there yet.

No slapping, it is not a criticism, it is just what I see.

It will shave, but it can shave much better and that edge will probably break down after 2-3 stropping’s. As I said, it is a common problem. I notice that most new honers I hands on teach, do not use enough pressure, as opposed to too much. As long as you are using tape you can not do too much damage, especially if you look often. If you sit there and grind hundreds of laps, that’s another story.

Here is what I am doing, so that you can see the same thing I do. Download the pics to a Photo Editing software, I use a free program called IR Fanview, it is very basic, but has all the features I need.

Once downloaded, open the photos and click the + symbol in the upper taskbar, it will enlarge the photo, enlarge to the max. Now you will see the edge looks sawtooth. This edge looks better than the first, but there is still some deep stria and a ragged edge.

Are you going from 1-8k?

You do not need to drop down to 1k, you need to remove all the 1k stria. Where you really see it clearly is the 20k photo, all that deep stria is 1 or 2k stria and you can see that there is more stria near the edge than the back of the bevel. It should be the opposite.

When I hone, all the deep 1 or 2k stria is first removed at the edge and it takes more laps to remove the deep stria from the back of the bevel.

Do you have a 3 or 4k? If so use it to do 20 more circles with pressure, 10 in each direction, then 2 sets of 20 laps, one with pressure, the second set with lite pressure, now look at it. All the deep stria should be gone and the edge should be straight, not fuzzy. If so, then move up to the 8k, 20 circles and 2 sets of 20 laps. From the 8, go to the 20 and skip 12 and the Ark. No circles on the 20. The bevel at the 20 should be near stria free.

For now, perfect the edge at 20k, then you can experiment. Adding a natural adds an infinite number of variables.

Your ark needs lapping and burnishing, it also could be just the corners need beveling or rounding.

Here is a 12k pic from the Second Try at Honing, thread.

Originally Posted by Gasman

I'm all ears when it comes to what Marty has to say as I just had my shower and test shave and....
Keen and Comfort! I really wasn't expecting any comfort from this edge but it was there. I even broke out the Alum because it went so well and got nothing from the Alum. Amazing.
If I can make my edges even better I'm all for it. But if this is the best I can get I'd still be as happy as a pig in ... Well, you know what I mean.

The bevel didn't look as good as I thought it should have looked, but I guess it was good enough. I'd still rather get an even cleaner looking bevel but I think this will take some more practice. And I see what you mean Shaun when it comes to getting the first couple stones as right as possible. I was fighting the stria from the lower stones. I think this is a very important part of honing. All of the steps are! From being damn sure you got a good bevel set, Making sure you have worked the lower grit stria as fine and even as possible, to the finish stone and being easy on it.

The way the Arkie did to the bevel didn't make me happy at all. I was a little bummed out on what it looked like, But I found it and/or a straighter edge made a difference in the comfort level.

I still want to hear from Marty and have him slap me down. Telling me what I still did wrong, but this is what makes me learn and grow in this crazy hobby of ours.

We hadn't had many edge and bevel pics lately so I was happy to post some and to show others who might be struggling with honing that it can be learned. It's not magic! There are solid facts and science to honing. This is what I've been looking for. Sorry for going on so much, but I'm excited that I just made a big jump to the better in my honing abilities.

Congratulations Jerry! A great shave, for me, is the end result! There is always more to learn and that is the fun part. I feel your excitement though. There is ALWAYS the next best edge

*did you see that rabbit?* *come on everyone! Let’s follow it down that hole*

Jerry, you are using way too many stones. For a total bevel set do 1, 3, 8 and 20k Keep it simple. You can make those jumps very easily, I often do fewer, but that is a more advanced technique and do not recommend it until you fully grasp pressure and know your stones potential.

The 5 & 12 do not add much in your progression. For a reset the 5 can come in handy, I have a King 6k I like for that when I need more than an 8k.

I like the 12k for touch up, but in your progression 8 to 20k works well, both are aggressive stones.

The 3k is your workhorse for removing the deep stria, here is where you want to use circles or pressure and maybe a few more laps than other stones. Get the 3k down with no deep stria and it’s downhill from there.

For this blade do not go lower than the 3k.

As I said earlier, you can start each new stone in the progression with circles or pressure and finish with light laps to lower the land of the stria, so it will be easier for the next stone in progression to remove all previous stria.

A given grit will cut the equivalent size grove, e.g. all 1k’s cut 1k grooves, after the groves are cut, if you do lite laps you can cut the height of the groove, the width will still be 1k, but the height could be half or a quarter, depending on the stone. A 1k diamond plate, will cut deeper than a 1k King.

I think you are close. Keep at it trying different technique, strokes and pressure and it will come together for you.

Here is one other thing you can try, that a lot of new guys have had good results with. Do a google search for “the Ax Method Gilmore” it is a half lap, knife honing technique that Alex Gilmore came up with a few years ago. You do 20 half laps, on each side, then 10 laps, 5 laps, 2 laps then one lite lap, 38 laps total, but you do a lot of laps on each side in succession, so you remove material quickly. This stroke has a tendency to put more pressure on the front/edge of the bevel. Just what you need…

Alex has a bunch of good video on You Tube and, on his site, TheJapanStone. Just something else that might work for you.

Almost there.