Thread: Mikawa Shiro Nagura progression on a suita.

I would say it comes down to what the stone is capable of. I have suita stones that will wipe 1k scratches and get the edge ready for a finisher with koma/tomo and other suitas that actually can't do that. So on those mid range suitas going back to botan is an overkill. On the other hand I have 1 very very hard suita that you can do the whole mikawa/tomo progression on and get a nice shave but that's sort of an unusual rock. The whole way it behaves during lapping etc, it really acts like a hard grey rock and not a suita.

Originally Posted by alex1921

I would say it comes down to what the stone is capable of. I have suita stones that will wipe 1k scratches and get the edge ready for a finisher with koma/tomo and other suitas that actually can't do that. So on those mid range suitas going back to botan is an overkill. On the other hand I have 1 very very hard suita that you can do the whole mikawa/tomo progression on and get a nice shave but that's sort of an unusual rock. The whole way it behaves during lapping etc, it really acts like a hard grey rock and not a suita.

Yes, and I am enjoying the process of finding that out. I believe this stone is capable of much more than I have asked of it so far. Time will tell.

“Time will tell.”

Yup, you got to learn your rock and what it is capable of. A year from now that rock, will have “improved” considerably.

Back in the day, pre-quality synthetic stones, not that long ago you needed the Nagura progression. Now with a 1k you can set a bevel, then jump straight to an 8k, then to a Jnat with diamond slurry, and finish on a tomo, or a harder finish stone, my usual progression.

Nothing wrong with the full Nagura progression, if that is your thing, and I totally get that, if it is.

Check out some of Alex Gilmore’s videos on TheJapanStone.com on YouTube. He often goes from 1k, King, to Jnat with diamond slurry, finishing with the same or refreshed slurry.

You can learn a lot about testing a stone, watching his videos. Keep in mind, those hands have handled a lot of rock and very sharp tools for a long time.

Great thread. Looking forward to your findings. I will say i enjoy using a Koma and Tomo but thats lately is as far as i go with the Naguras. After 8k i find with those two Nagura i can get to a nice finished edge without spending as much time on the stones. Alex and Marty will help you to learn a lot. They helped me. Watching Alex's vids you will say to yourself "how can it possibly be done". BTW, thanks Alex for making your vids!

Originally Posted by Straightandproud

Please share your experiences with your Suita Jnats and how they fit into "your" progressions.

It's very hard to generalise about stones that can be so individual.

With razors I would place most Suita as a pre polisher eg to clean up work from synthetics providing I haven't done a full synth progression to Gok 20 k, then a Suita may have no place.

Suita generally can take over from 1k up to 12k.

Can you shave off a Suita ? It depends on the stone & the steel & the honer . Are there stones that will improve that edge ? Almost always.

It helps to remember that there are usually two suita formations, the upper, or tenjou suita, and the lower suita which is the usual whiter stones with layers. The upper level stones are considered to be more metal polishers than cutters, though obvious exceptions exist.

I’d suggest after the thin slurry, washing the stone and razor of any slurry and adding 10-30 clear water strokes at light polishing pressure and trying that edge.

Kudos to Marty for recommending clean leather. The razor is supposed to be stropped on leather, not oil, wax, skin oil with salt in it, household dust that stuck to the oil, wax, and salt, etc. Give clean leather a chance.

Here’s a nice bench size tenjou from Alex Gilmore that I picked up a few years back, it had Narutaki stamps on it when new, and it will hone up a razor well finishing on clear water. It isn’t quite the best of class as a final razor finisher, but it can certainly make a smooth comfortable edge, is a great prefinisher and a killer knife hone.

Well I have been on the Mizukihara twice since my last post and have a much better understanding of it's capabilities. Two entirely different approaches have been attempted, each ending with a shaveable razor.

1) 1k bevel set on my test razor. Botan, Tenjyou, Meijiro progression. Then straight water on the Mizukihara. The shave was as usual. Slightly lacking in keenness and very, very smooth. I was able to do three passes and get a very clean and irritation free shave.

2) 1Kbevel set on the same razor. A heavy diamond plate slurry was created and worked until black then slowly diluted until straight water. This stone seems fairly fast with it's own slurry. The resulting shave was nearly identical to the first.

So what have I learned as a result?
The Nagura progression on this stone is unnecessary, not pointless. The same results were reached in about half the time with the stone and it's own slurry and the shave from this stone is exceptionally smooth but to my taste, lacking in keenness.

After the last honing session and shave, the test razor was taken to the Shobudani with a light shobu slurry slowly diluted to a magnificently keen and smooth edge. I believe that the Mizukihara is a fast, hard pre-finisher that leaves off where the shobu starts. It is exactly what I was told it would be but I had to find out for myself.