Thread: Learning when to move to the next hone

RayClem: I've thought about getting something between the 1K and 4K, but it seemed most go without. I'll look into it a little more seriously.

Euclid440: Funny you should mention higher magnification. I picked up a new magnifier around a month ago. It's a little higher mag that what I'd been using and has much better resolution. It's helped quite a bit. I like the idea of changing the striae angle on the last few strokes, it should make it easier to see when their gone. Circles...I'm horrible at circles with a razor. I've used circles to set a burr on knives for multiple decades. I've tried circles a couple of times with a razor and I lift the spine like crazy. I'm not sure I can fight that much muscle memory.

I've got one of the blades sorted out. When I was getting to a polish on the 8K I noticed what looked like micro chipping. I did two really light swipes on the edge of my 4K and brought it back up. It's ready for a test shave and I'm cautiously optimistic.

The second is fighting a little more. It was looking good so I took it to my strop. Looked good after the canvas, but after 50 or so laps on the leather I saw an area that looked like the edge had rolled. The canvas made it "disappear" and it came back with the leather. I'm thinking I've got a bit of a wire edge . My plan is to joint the edge on the 4K and work back up. I took a couple of microscope pics just because I'm not sure what's going on. They are both at about 40X.

The bevel with the damaged area


Same area looking straight down on the edge

I use 40 power mag. That whole edge looks chippy to me.

I will let others comment on that.

I used to quit looking at the edge after the first couple of stones. Then I had a blade that started to chip above 8000. Now, I check the edge after every stone.

Originally Posted by rolodave

That whole edge looks chippy to me.

I agree, saw several little chipped looking areas while I was getting the pics. I sort of ignored it as I figure jointing the edge will get that also. I was mostly curious about what was going on with the "rolled" area.

I've been checking the edge every 50 laps as a learning exercise. I'll keep checking on each stone but probably reduce the frequency as I get better.

Circles remove metal faster because of multi directional grinding and faster with slurry.

That looks like impact damage that was not fully removed at bevel set. Impact damage goes deeper than the chip. The steel is weak below the chip, so if you remove the chip and strop, the edge flexes and another chip appears at that weak spot.

Joint it and re set on the 1k, mark that spot with a sharpie line from the chip to the spine, so you can easily find it and ensure it is fully removed.

If you find a large issue you can try to get it with the 4k, but it almost always is wiser, to bite the bullet and drop back to the 1k and ensure the bevel is fully set.

Another thing to look at is at every chip on the edge, you can see a deep white line going from the chip up to the spine.

If you did not have the failed area, (the width is more troubling than the depth), you could try just removing all the deep 1k stria and see if that improved the edge.

You could joint the edge and try some circles with slurry and a bit of pressure, then lighter straight or X strokes to set an even 4k stria pattern. After a clean, fresh quick lapped stone the edge should get pretty straight, after 8k, very straight.

But with that edge I would go back to the 1k.

Yep, you predicted it. Back to 1K it is. I tried the 4K joint, did about 50 laps and really didn't like where it was headed. I've jointed twice on the 1K and am determined to work this out. I will get this...

Thanks for the explanation about the dent, makes sense. Hadn't considered deformation below the surface.

I get why circles take metal off faster, but I seriously suck at it. I can do it with two hands on a straight edge, but anything with a smile and I'll just make it worse. I've got a likely dead blade I was going to post about to make sure it is truly dead. If it is I'll use it for circle practice.

Oh, and after the 2nd jointing, it looks like I've got the problem spots on the run.

Ok, I think I've got it ready for 4K. No chips, looks nice and smooth, bevel has evened out, feels good on the thumb, and it's grabbing hairs and popping a couple.

Thanks for all your help, I'll let you know the outcome.

Here is an old thread where the honer took micrographs of the bevels at all steps in his honing process.

The photos show what the stria and the edge should look like at each stone.

Post 51 the first photo shows what a fully set bevel looks like, looking straight down on the edge.
Post 42 edge pics show an almost set edge, note the shiny reflections.
Note the even stria pattern at each grit, once the bevel is fully set, then it is just a matter of removing each stones grit with the next stone in the progression.

(My second try at honing,)

Test shave report: Used one on each side of my face and...meh. Improved but still not there. They were still a little tuggy and the shave wasn't that close. Not uncomfortable and no sting with the aftershave so I'm not fully disappointed. Both edges felt pretty similar so I'm counting that as a success.

I think I'll revisit these after I do the 1K/4K challenge.

Just bumping your fingernail can cause a ding like in that edge & going back to 1k was good idea. A simple wire edge however, can always be removed on the next stone in a few strokes.