Thread: Any general advice for using Arkansas stones?

Here is an interesting video by Robrenz, Robin Renzetti on precision grinding flat stones.

He precision grinds Norton India stones on a precision grinding diamond wheel. These stones are $15/20,150/400 grit that once flattened will produce a near mirror finish.

It is the same thing that burnishing accomplishes only at a higher degree.

PRECISION GROUND TOOLROOM STONES

Originally Posted by Rugger007

I mentioned this an another post but here goes. I only dress my Arks as far as 600 Wet/Dry and quickly run a chefs knife over the surface a few times (12 at most) and as soon as my Arks start to become "polished" they go right back to the 600. Polishing your Ark beyond this level, all your doing is removing the stones abrasive properties and you are there for 200+ strokes only to make limited progress if any at all. If your using a well polished/burnished Ark all you are doing is moving the steel around in the same way a Knife Steeling Rod works, you are not actually cutting/removing steel which is the only way to refine the edge, you may as well just strop and forget about the Ark, IMO. Terms such as 'polishing" the edge are very misleading, in order to "polish" your edge to a higher degree one MUST remove steel with progressively finer abrasives, its really that simple. Dont worry too much about pressure, honestly, we all put far too much stock in it and it causes many more issues to arise, just do what feels right. As for lubrication, straight water will work on a very dense Ark such as a Surgical Black or Trans Ark, however, on say a soft Ark it will not carry the swarf away and clog your stone. I personally use propylene glycol USP on my Arks and Cotis. Its non-toxic, 100% water soluble and used throughout the food industry. Add a few drops or your Ark and dilute with water (water soluble) until you get the viscosity you like. Your Ark will tell you when its done and then you can add another drop or two and keep going if your so inclined.

Hmmm, conflicting info on burnishing...I get what you're saying and it makes sense about the burnished side acting like a steeling rod. Of course steeling does improve an edge so All I know for sure is I've shaved off both the 600 grit finish and the burnished finish and the shave from the burnished side was improved. I'll play around with both for a bit and see what I like.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

If you think you are getting all the stone has to offer, after honing one razor, (“The test shave this morning was maybe a little smoother, the whiskers just wiped away. I think this is about as far as this edge will go.”) you will be amazed that you were shaving off that edge a year from now. You are just scratching the surface of the stone’s potential.

After doing the 1K/4K/8K challenge I don't doubt my edges will improve with some extra practice. Right now my imagination is struggling with getting these edges even sharper

Cool video. Keeping tolerances in the 20 millionths is crazy precise

Originally Posted by JellyJar

I'm finally getting good edges off the 8K and I want to learn the arks I have.

I have a fine/hard and a black ark. Both have been flattened to 600 grit and one side of the black has been burnished. I'm only including the fine/hard as the one I have feels just a little smoother to the touch than my 8K and I'm wondering if it might be a reasonable intermediate before going to the black I also have Smith's honing oil, Smith's honing solution, and of course water. Is Smith's honing solution a good place to start?

I'm hoping some of you ark users have some general tips on using these stones. I know each stone is going to be different and I just need to figure mine out, but are there some basics to begin with? Start with light torque and stay with light torque/start heavy, work to light? Start with circles move to X strokes?

Any advice is appreciated.

Get a handful of razors and practice......take notes.

Everyone’s lap pattern is unique, and no fixed pattern is perfect. On each stone/progression I start with a few warm up, full regular laps, then circles, then back and forth laps, followed by pyramid of edge leading 1/2 laps

My lap count is no where near what some of you are doing but still getting good results.... I’ll have to try some higher lap counts.

I took my second blade back to the hard ark and then went straight to the burnished black. Got a shave in and it was kinda meh. Not horrible, but not where I want the edge to be. Right now I think using the un-burnished side between the hard and burnished black is helpful. Practice, practice, practice...

Went back to the un-burnished side of the black ark with the second blade, and then did a bunch of laps on the burnished side followed by a whole lot of stropping. I did a single test pass this morning and was very pleased. I'll to a whole shave this weekend, just to be sure.

I'm pretty happy I've got a progression giving me edges I enjoy.

Thanks for all of your tips, they have been very helpful.

JJ, have u tried finishing with soap n water, on the black.?!
( dish soap, liquid hand soap )

I've been finishing out a few on my black, coming off a Coti, to the black w/ soap n water, has been producing some incredible, results.

Make sure to try varying degrees of torque too. I tried using some torque on the translucent after coming off a naniwa 12k. I used a little water, enough to wet the surface with a couple of drops of glycerin. Did about 20 laps with some pressure concentrated towards the edge then 20 ish with slightly lighter amount of torque, added a couple of drops of glycerin and then did 40 more laps again decreasing torque gradually. Diluted a little more with glycerin and went 20 more again lightening up on torque until about “weight” of the blade then added more glycerin and did 30-40 more strokes with very light finishing strokes. The feed back from the stone let me know when I was done. Not a sticky feeling but consistently smooth with increased drag, once the feeling stopped progressing I went maybe 10 more laps before I called it done. Did 10 laps on nylon strop and a pile of leather (120-130 laps), at least for me.

Sharpness was a touch below the naniwa but boy was it smooth.

Dish soap is about the same viscosity as glycerin if you don’t have any.

Try different razors too, some steel takes a lot better than others to the Arkansas.

No, I haven't tried dish soap, will definitely give it a go. I should probably use the same blade to keep things more consistent.

ScoutHikerDad suggested varying pressure as well. I'll give that a try down the road. Right now I'm not consistent enough with my torque to be confident about changing it in a predictable manner. I'm just getting decent at letting the blade float across the stone.

As for feedback in the blade, I'm starting to get a sense of what your talking about with the increased drag/slight suction. I've been moving away from the magnifier with the arks and have been trying to go more by feel and the shine of the bevel.

I've got 8 or 9 more hollows to work my way through (German, American, and Sheffield) so hopefully I'll have a pretty decent handle on some of these techniques when I'm done.

I use Smith's honing solution. I'm not sure what it's made off... but it is definitely slicker than straight water.

Water does well for the kitchen knives, but won't give as keen an edge for razors as Smith's, in my experience.