Thread: Bevel width

Well Guys,

I just moved to 4K. I was so excited to try it out that I forgot the pics and just got on and shaved.

That was two shaves today, I love this honing stuff - it gives me a reason to shave a couple of times a day.

I thought the 1K was pretty decent, and it was but 4K, OMG I had such a nice shave, no discomfort and although not 100% BBS I couldn't have got much closer.

Thanks everyone for the help, bet you can't guess what stone I am going to use tomorrow (spoiler alert, 8K).

Originally Posted by STF

Well Guys,

I just moved to 4K. I was so excited to try it out that I forgot the pics and just got on and shaved.

That was two shaves today, I love this honing stuff - it gives me a reason to shave a couple of times a day.

I thought the 1K was pretty decent, and it was but 4K, OMG I had such a nice shave, no discomfort and although not 100% BBS I couldn't have got much closer.

Thanks everyone for the help, bet you can't guess what stone I am going to use tomorrow (spoiler alert, 8K).

By Jove, oy think 'e's GOT it!

Just be sure you totally obliterated the 1k scratches with the 4k, before you jump to 8k, and everything will be roses. "Too many" laps is better than not enough laps, as long as your pressure is light and you are doing the edge clearing routine and you don't see any bits and pieces (I call them "edge boogers") clinging to the edge when you are done. It's gonna be great. Wait and see. You are on the right track.

"Stiction" will be a lot stronger on the 8k than on previous grits. It will feel like a giant magnet is holding the razor in place when you have reached optimum bevel polish with that stone. When it gets strong but doesn't seem to be getting stronger cause it is already as strong as it can get, you are probably done. Verify visually.

Do you have a 12k? If not, I can send you a piece of 1u film for finishing. In fact I think I have enough plates to spare a plate as well. Beats paying full price for a Naniwa Superstone, I expect, getting a film setup for free.

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

By Jove, oy think 'e's GOT it!

Just be sure you totally obliterated the 1k scratches with the 4k, before you jump to 8k, and everything will be roses. "Too many" laps is better than not enough laps, as long as your pressure is light and you are doing the edge clearing routine and you don't see any bits and pieces (I call them "edge boogers") clinging to the edge when you are done. It's gonna be great. Wait and see. You are on the right track.

"Stiction" will be a lot stronger on the 8k than on previous grits. It will feel like a giant magnet is holding the razor in place when you have reached optimum bevel polish with that stone. When it gets strong but doesn't seem to be getting stronger cause it is already as strong as it can get, you are probably done. Verify visually.

Do you have a 12k? If not, I can send you a piece of 1u film for finishing. In fact I think I have enough plates to spare a plate as well. Beats paying full price for a Naniwa Superstone, I expect, getting a film setup for free.

Thank you so much for you kind offer I am constantly amazed at the generosity of the guys here.

I do have a 12K Naniwa SS so I don't actually need any film but I will remember your generosity and if there is any way I can help you or any of the guys here in the future, I certainly will if I can.

Thank you again

I am heartbroken!

I just got up all excited that I could move onto 8K this morning but it will have to wait until later or maybe even tomorrow.

I am still so smooth from shaving late in the afternoon with the 4K edge yesterday that a shave with 8K right now would prove very little to me and rightly or wrongly, my best indication of how well I am progressing is how well it shaves me.

I have another question.

Although I won't be getting one yet, if I could only ever have 1 natural stone and it was to finish after 12K so would need to be smoother and higher than 12k. What would the best natural be that would be something that I could be proud of for the rest of my life. Even if I never bought another stone.

Norton 1K, 4K/8K, 12K Naniwa SS and one really special Natural.

In fact, while I'm on the subject. As far as honing from bevel setting and up. What is the difference between the stones, like Norton vs Shapton etc?

Not getting anything yet, I'm not nearly ready to get into natural , I haven't even got to 8K yet but I would like some opinions.

Originally Posted by STF

I am heartbroken!

I just got up all excited that I could move onto 8K this morning but it will have to wait until later or maybe even tomorrow.

I am still so smooth from shaving late in the afternoon with the 4K edge yesterday that a shave with 8K right now would prove very little to me and rightly or wrongly, my best indication of how well I am progressing is how well it shaves me.

I have another question.

Although I won't be getting one yet, if I could only ever have 1 natural stone and it was to finish after 12K so would need to be smoother and higher than 12k. What would the best natural be that would be something that I could be proud of for the rest of my life. Even if I never bought another stone.

Norton 1K, 4K/8K, 12K Naniwa SS and one really special Natural.

In fact, while I'm on the subject. As far as honing from bevel setting and up. What is the difference between the stones, like Norton vs Shapton etc?

Not getting anything yet, I'm not nearly ready to get into natural , I haven't even got to 8K yet but I would like some opinions.

There's a couple rabbit holes there you're digging into.

Natural stones: Coticules, Thuringians, Eschers, Japanese Naturals (JNat), Arkansas Hones, Jasper, modern types (Apaches, etc.), etc. etc. etc. Some work by having particulates in the slurry make little channels in the razor, resulting in a very very smooth but perhaps not as keen edge. Others polish the bevel similar to a very high end synthetic.

As far as various synthetics... there are a bunch of comparisons out there. Roughly speaking, higher quality stones have better binders and more uniform particulate, with (in theory) higher associated cost.

Basically you're going to have to do your own research. Keith Johnson (tomo nagura) has a very good YouTube channel (and website) that discusses a lot of these issues. Although he sells different types of stones, he's a JNat vendor, so will lean heavy toward them...

I've got a naturals of different types. I find JNats very easy to use, and love the feel of the edge they provide. JNats (generally speaking) use a slurry and the particulates break down into smaller particles as you work the slurry... they can give an extraordinarily keen yet smooth edge, that will wipe the whiskers away yet be much more forgiving in terms of cutting your skin and providing weepers.

Originally Posted by STF

if I could only ever have 1 natural stone and it was to finish after 12K so would need to be smoother and higher than 12k.

No, if your getting the most out of your 12k a lot of the effect of naturals is a different feel of the edge. Not to say that some naturals couldn't finish finer than the Nani 12k.

It's not uncommon to use naturals that finish at a lower level of keenness than the 12k even following the 12k because of the different feel that they give to the edge.

The 12k Nanny will do just fine. Nearly all naturals will be a downgrade in pure cutting power. Many will improve shaving comfort but beware of placebo effect. When we pay $300 for a prized natural and associated rubbing stones, we EXPECT miracles. Some deliver for real. Some not so much. I have shaved with a couple of Jnat edges that were as sharp or sharper than an ordinary 12k synthetic edge. I own one Jnat and neither me nor Alfredo (Doc226) could make it produce an edge as sharp as 1u film, though it was still pretty good.

I think the biggest attraction to naturals is the tremendous variation of choice in technique. It has been said that honing on film or synthetic stones is science, and honing on naturals is art. And so, honing on naturals is more than just the final result. The process is the reward, as much as the result. I would suggest that when your curiousity gets the better of you, that you borrow rather than buy a Jnat and a couple of slurry stones. Or other expensive naturals. Try it for a week or two before you jump down that very deep rabbit hole, credit card in hand. You might also want to sample the edges crafted by guys who have spent half a lifetime honing on their favorite flavor of natural stone.

My own favorite honing media is lapping film, followed by good quality synthetics. My finish is a three part progression of specially prepared diamond pasted balsa, to .1u or about 200k grit. At that level the edge is both very very sharp, and nice and smooth, when used with the correct technique. So obviously I lean more toward the science than the art of honing.

For <edit> SYNTHETICS above 12k grit, you might look at Shaptons. Be ready for sticker shock. There are also ways of leveraging your 12k Naniwa into greater performance. And of course there is always the balsa. I have some coarse shaptons but I have never used the finer ones, so I can't really say, but the Naniwas seem to be somewhat more popular.

Looking forward to your next progress and shave report.

Naturals are completely different because the finish is so subjective, and technique driven.

Synthetic are uniform, your 12k super stone is exactly like my 12k super stone. No two naturals are identical, some can be very different from one side to the other.

Add to that, technique and they can be worlds apart. Add to that your skin and beard type, and the condition of your razor and steel and the possibilities explode.

The question is, what do you want? More keenness or more comfort?

Paste is probably where you want to start, it is the most affordable and effective way to add either. Start with Chrome Oxide, Diamonds and CBN. Once you know which direction you want, then start with naturals.

Ark finishers are probable easiest and most affordable, a 6-inch Black Ark is not that expensive and really all you need. How the stone is finished will determine its finish potential but can easily be calibrated with just sandpaper and some muscle.

Jnats are a deep black hole, you have stones, mines, layers, vendors, slurry, tomos, diamonds, strokes, techniques, it is endless.

Most Jnat users have several. For me, the best natural edges for my face are Arks and Jnats.

Hello Guys,

Ok, I just gave my razor a few laps on 4K again in case it went blunt overnight LOL and then spent about 10 minutes on 8K.

I didn't strop it before I shaved and to be honest I could have got away without shaving today but I did shave with 8k and I don't know what to say except why did I spend money on a 12k Naniwa SS.

I cannot believe that I am BBS today and had a really great, comfortable shave. It didn't feel very different from the razors in my rotation. There's a worry actually, maybe it's refresh time.

I am really excited to finish my razor on the 12K, if the 8K was that good, I think the 12K is gonna blow my mind eh?

Thank you for the advice about naturals, it sounds like that will be a very long way down the road - if ever because in answer to the question, smooth or sharp. I don't really know yet but would have to shay sharp. Outback sent me sharp, my god I want that sharp.

I saw a youtube vid this morning and the guy said he doesn't use his 30K Shapton much because his diamond felt board strop is about the same grit with .5 (microns I assume).

If I wanted to finish with a beautiful laser edge on a felt paddle, what diamond do you suggest, I don't think I want CrO Ox (not sure how to spell it) because I want, well - 30K Shapton sounds quite nice.


8K after a shave and 10 canvas, 30 leather.

Originally Posted by STF

Hello Guys,

Ok, I just gave my razor a few laps on 4K again in case it went blunt overnight LOL and then spent about 10 minutes on 8K.

I didn't strop it before I shaved and to be honest I could have got away without shaving today but I did shave with 8k and I don't know what to say except why did I spend money on a 12k Naniwa SS.

I cannot believe that I am BBS today and had a really great, comfortable shave. It didn't feel very different from the razors in my rotation. There's a worry actually, maybe it's refresh time.

I am really excited to finish my razor on the 12K, if the 8K was that good, I think the 12K is gonna blow my mind eh?

Thank you for the advice about naturals, it sounds like that will be a very long way down the road - if ever because in answer to the question, smooth or sharp. I don't really know yet but would have to shay sharp. Outback sent me sharp, my god I want that sharp.

I saw a youtube vid this morning and the guy said he doesn't use his 30K Shapton much because his diamond felt board strop is about the same grit with .5 (microns I assume).

If I wanted to finish with a beautiful laser edge on a felt paddle, what diamond do you suggest, I don't think I want CrO Ox (not sure how to spell it) because I want, well - 30K Shapton sounds quite nice.


8K after a shave and 10 canvas, 30 leather.

Okay, look at your edge. See the bright line there? The reflection is a clue that either the bevel no longer goes all the way to the edge, or else you have a burr or wire edge there. Use the edge clearing routine and see what it looks like, then if it isn't any better, hone some more on the 8k. Very light pressure, weight of the razor and MAYBE about a finger's weight. No more. Hone until your edge doesn't have that bright line reflecting from it. Also you have some pretty deep scratches there from the 4k level and maybe even from the 1k stage. Those need to go away before you can say you are done with the 8k and ready for the 12k.

Remember to keep changing your tape when it starts to wear. The thickness of electrical tape actually is a pretty big deal when you get past the bevel setting stage. I hope you have lapped your stones. I know you are delighted with your results so far, but trust me, it gets better. The details are what makes it better. Optimize every detail and you optimize your results. You think your shave is good now? Just wait. You are gonna crush it.