Thread: Bevel width

Originally Posted by RezDog

Overhoning from my point of view,is on the higher grit hones. It leads to a weak or foil edge, it may shave very well, but will have a short life. Overhoning on a 1K is just wasting steel.
If you have a near perfect or perfect bevel set, and do 20 or 30 very light strokes on the 1K you will reduce the scratch pattern and slightly improve the shave off your edge. Also when setting the bevel I never really concern myself as to what the sides of the bevel look like, at this point I feel they are not particularly relevant. I look nearly straight down on the very tip of the apex. It should be very hard to see and have no sparkles or lines. If you take and joint the edge lightly on your thumbnail, then look at the point of the apex, it should show a fine white line all the way along. In order to have the bevel set, you must bring the two sides back to form an apex. A set bevel is a perfect V and an inset bevel is more like a U. Bringing the side together to form the perfect V is the first goal in bevel setting.

Thank you, that is very helpful, so running the blade across my thumbnail will joint it enough?

I have to admit that the thumbnail jointing technique makes me a bit nervous.

Is there any chance that I will cut right through my fingernail?

I have also seen youtube videos where a person tests if the bevel is set on their fingernail.

If a fingernail joints an edge, would testing the bevel on a nail also destroy it?

You have already jointed that edge at least once. I would urge you not to do it again now that you are so close to having a bevel. Just hone, lightly and carefully with x strokes until you have your bevel.

The thumb nail test (TNT)will kill the edge so don't do it at the very end. Always end off the stone. It won't go through the nail unless you are really leaning on it AND have micro-thin nails. Dampen the nail (I usually lick mine) and with only the pressure of the blade drag it LIGHTLY across the whole length of the bevel. It should pull a little. Where it doesn't pull you don't have a good apex. If it catches you have a micro- chip. After the test , if it is good, do 10-20 light strokes ( blade weight only) to bring the edge back.

Jointing is like any other technique. Don't overdo it or you defeat your progress. It's easy to overdo any technique when your learning it but try to fully understand it first so you don't. I'm the worst at that so I tend to really study something first so that I don't.
You'll get it figured out. You're making good progress.

Oh I forgot, you are honing with tape, right? As it wears, your bevel angle changes and more emphasis is placed on the root of the bevel, away from the edge. Change your tape often and place it carefully. Next time, try honing without unless you actually check the bevel angle and find it to be too acute. No, don't switch to untaped honing for this razor. It would mean starting all over again and you are close to success. But watch the wear (and compression) on the tape. It can trip you up. If your tape is wearing quickly, you may be applying too much pressure to the spine and too little to the edge. Give it a gentle torque down onto the hone. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.

Originally Posted by STF

If a fingernail joints an edge, would testing the bevel on a nail also destroy it?

I never do a TNT beyond the 1k level, and return to the 1k after it for several strokes before progressing upward.

OK, now I have an idea what i'm seeing!

This is this mornings attempt to set the bevel.

Based on the advice you are generously offering I'm going to hazard a guess that this bevel is not good.

I will say that I don't know anything about this razor and have never shaved with it. I was advised though that it had never shaved well.

I wonder if I should learn on something that I know shaves well?

Try clearing the edge. Looks like some fin there.

First, the pull strokes. Lay the razor flat on the hone and pull it across, W to E motion, about 3/4" distance. Flip and do the same on the other side. Now 5 more laps like that.

Next, a couple dozen very light laps using a short x stroke. Travel distance about 3" and be careful not to slap the bevel down on the hone when you flip it.

This will strip a lot of artifacts from your edge. You can also try stropping. Some guys swear by linen or canvas for this.

Look at your edge again and see if it has improved. Look at the bevel again. Do you need to go some more? If so, go for it but one or two pull strokes for every 10 laps or so to control the artifacts and do the whole edge clearing routine when you are done.

Stay on the 1k until you have a good precise bevel and a clean, crisp edge. Remember to watch the pressure. Pressure causes fin or wire edge more than just lap count.

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

Try clearing the edge. Looks like some fin there.

First, the pull strokes. Lay the razor flat on the hone and pull it across, W to E motion, about 3/4" distance. Flip and do the same on the other side. Now 5 more laps like that.

Next, a couple dozen very light laps using a short x stroke. Travel distance about 3" and be careful not to slap the bevel down on the hone when you flip it.

This will strip a lot of artifacts from your edge. You can also try stropping. Some guys swear by linen or canvas for this.

Look at your edge again and see if it has improved. Look at the bevel again. Do you need to go some more? If so, go for it but one or two pull strokes for every 10 laps or so to control the artifacts and do the whole edge clearing routine when you are done.

Stay on the 1k until you have a good precise bevel and a clean, crisp edge. Remember to watch the pressure. Pressure causes fin or wire edge more than just lap count.

Is it happy dance time yet?

I think maybe so! Hard to tell exactly what I am seeing there. Does it shave arm hair easily? Does the bevel look nice and flat and complete? If you can say true to those three things then you should be good for the next level.

Change your tape. Pressure should be less than the weight of your hand. By the time you are on your finisher it should be just the weight of the razor. Go on your 4k or whatever you got (be sure and lap it if it hasn't been lapped in a while or if it is new) and go regular x-stroke laps until you see a difference in how it pushes the honing water and feel a difference in how the stone grabs at the blade and resists the stroke. You can also look at the scratch pattern and at the edge smoothness. The 4k stage should remove all 1k scratches. Along with the scratches, the coarser teeth made by the 1k will be honed away. It may take 15 laps. It may take 80. Don't go by lap count. Go by the indicators. Same with your 8k stage and finally your finisher. When you are done with the 12k-ish finisher stage the razor should treetop reasonably well. Passing the razor 1/4" above the skin should get at least one or two hairs. If it makes a loud ping or tink sound that's okay. This is all you can reasonably expect from a 12k stone or a 1u film. It should shave your face reasonably well at that level of edge quality. To get any better you will need to hit a properly prepared progression of lapped and pasted balsa strops. Leave that be for now. Get your ducks all in a row with standard honing first. The balsa needs a good edge to build upon. It can't make your dull edge sharp. It can only make a sharp edge sharper and smoother. In fact I would urge you to do a test shave after your 4k and after your 8k stage. If you can't shave off your 8k then there is not much point in flailing away with the razor on the 12k. EACH STAGE must FULLY do its job.

So, what does the bevel look like and how much cutting power does the edge have? If you think you are truly ready to bump it up a notch, go for it.

I have just shaved with my new 1K bevel.



A four pass shave, not unpleasant and I had a pretty good shave. Not BBS by any means, in fact I am a bit disappointed in my neck but I would have to say I had a better shave than I did the first 20 times i tried a straight razor (bet a few of you remember that terrified noob that made a vid).

I spent longer than usual on the cleanup but if I don't shave tomorrow I doubt anyone would notice eh.

I am so happy, I think I succeeded, I just hope it wasn't more luck than judgment.

So, guys - I thinks I'm ready for 4K, I haven't stropped the 1K after setting the bevel or after shaving because I wasn't sure if I should.

OK, 4K. How should I approach that one, do I want slurry, do I want torque, should I use the same strokes I used to set the bevel or are there gentler ones I should use?

Thank you for helping to make this journey as painless as possible, I know there's a long way to go but I don't care - I had a good shave with a 1K