Thread: Dovo’s honing method

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Again Speak for yourself... You don't know
And if the people at Dovo haven't figured it out by testing a few edges then they deserved the B/K

I already stated earlier that the amount of concavity imparted on the bevel was imperceptibly small. Could anyone, given all other variables equal apart from hone convexity, feel a difference? That however does not preclude and actual cutting advantage to the concave bevel.

You're mixing up the debate over the supposed advantages of the convex stone with the whole shave readiness thing. They're distinct from each other.

A razor may or may not be 'shave ready' regardless of the hone used.

A convex stone, and thus a concave bevel, may or may not have an advantage over a v bevel.

If the convex stone does impart an advantage, it still may not be perceptible to the end user.

I can't see what anyone could disagree with here.

No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man.

Originally Posted by thp001

I already stated earlier that the amount of concavity imparted on the bevel was imperceptibly small. Could anyone, given all other variables equal apart from hone convexity, feel a difference? That however does not preclude and actual cutting advantage to the concave bevel.

You're mixing up the debate over the supposed advantages of the convex stone with the whole shave readiness thing. They're distinct from each other.

A razor may or may not be 'shave ready' regardless of the hone used.

A convex stone, and thus a concave bevel, may or may not have an advantage over a v bevel.

If the convex stone does impart an advantage, it still may not be perceptible to the end user.

I can't see what anyone could disagree with here.

No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man.

How do you know, where is your proof ???

Please show us you are again making statements without any proof, and the claim of "Jarrod Says" doesn't hold water here he could not back it up either


Also this "No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man." is a Jarrod move

Don't start with the Victim flag, because you are being called out to back up your claims, I mean it is bad enough you are repeating his junk science please don't start repeating his whining

Originally Posted by gssixgun

How do you know, where is your proof ???

Please show us you are again making statments without any proof, and the claim of "Jarrod Says" doesn't hold water here he could not back it up either

My proof is that I calculated the distance of the saggita from a chord which measured 0.5mm across a wheel that had a diameter of 7600mm (25ft, the same kind of radius as a convex hone) The distance from the saggita to the chord was something like 0.000008mm. That would imply a minute concavity to the edge bevel.

You keep insinuating that I am defending Jarrod when in fact my calculation would actually back up your claim that the concave bevel thing has no real world impact.

I would ask you to read my posts properly before accusing me playing "Jarrod Say's".

I've stated many times in this thread that I'm not convinced of the real world effects of a concave bevel.

Originally Posted by thp001

My proof is that I calculated the distance of the saggita from a chord which measured 0.5mm across a wheel that had a diameter of 7600mm (25ft, the same kind of radius as a convex hone) The distance from the saggita to the chord was something like 0.000008mm. That would imply a minute concavity to the edge bevel.

You keep insinuating that I am defending Jarrod when in fact my calculation would actually back up your claim that the concave bevel thing has no real world impact.

I would ask you to read my posts properly before accusing me playing "Jarrod Say's".

So again a BS theory that Jarrod claimed on another forum yet no real hands on proof

Stop already

Originally Posted by gssixgun

So again a BS theory that Jarrod claimed on another forum yet no real hands on proof

Stop already

Honestly I think your high feelings over this issue are making you take my comments out of context.

Look there is a difference in whether a convex hone would prescribe enough of an arc on a razors bevel in the real world, versus theory.

My calculation literally shows that even in theory, the arc prescribed is infintesimally small and probably doesn't make a difference. In reality it's probably less than that.

You're claiming that I am saying the opposite of what I am.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Also this "No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man." is a Jarrod move

Don't start with the Victim flag, because you are being called out to back up your claims, I mean it is bad enough you are repeating his junk science please don't start repeating his whining

This is extremely uncharitable.

My claims actually back up your general point that a concave bevel isn't a real world advantage.

“You're rolling all the claims into one. Here's how I see the claims:”

No, not really.

Point 1 and 2 are the same and are FALSE!

Points 3&4 are the same and True.

1. a razor honed on a convex stone creates a better edge? true or false.

2. A convex stone has certain advantages over a flat hone? true or false.

3. Dovo honers are frowning their edges with convex hones? true or false.

4. Dovo honers can't create shave ready edges, (with convex hones).

Bottom line and common denominator, the convex hone.

So, as Glen said no first-hand experience. How about you make a convex hone, hone a razor, pass it around for inspection and shaving?

But again, if it does not work for Dovo, what makes you think it will work for you. And Jarrod has sold some stones and presumably some concave plates to make convex hones.

Where are the raving reviews? Not one yet…

Boy this makes Dovo look good! I’m going to buy a 7-day set! Not.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Where are the raving reviews? Not one yet…

I enjoy it. I will not give it a raving review, but it suits me.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“You're rolling all the claims into one. Here's how I see the claims:”

No, not really.

Point 1 and 2 are the same and are FALSE!

Points 3&4 are the same and True.

1. a razor honed on a convex stone creates a better edge? true or false.

2. A convex stone has certain advantages over a flat hone? true or false.

3. Dovo honers are frowning their edges with convex hones? true or false.

4. Dovo honers can't create shave ready edges, (with convex hones).

Bottom line and common denominator, the convex hone.

So, as Glen said no first-hand experience. How about you make a convex hone, hone a razor, pass it around for inspection and shaving?

But again, if it does not work for Dovo, what makes you think it will work for you. And Jarrod has sold some stones and presumably some concave plates to make convex hones.

Where are the raving reviews? Not one yet…

You're making it sound as if I'm advocating the convex hone, I've stated multiple times I don't think the supposed advantages would translate to the real world. That doesn't mean the theoretical advantages would not turn into real advantages all variables being equal, nor the opposite. The theoretical advantages may be too small for us to detect and therefore not worth the effort. I never claimed one hone was better in the real world, only that one had some theoretical advantages. These two claims are not mutually exclusive.

My calculation of the saggita height from the chord was dismissed as BS. Would a flat plane not, theoretically, become concave when applied to a convex surface? I never claimed that this is what happened in reality when honing. My calculation even showed that the amount of concavity was incredibly small even in theory, which actually supports the criticisms against the convex hone being radically better.

Points 1 and 2 are not the same. The convex hone could have advantages that have nothing to do with the condition of the edge bevel.

Points 3 and 4 could also exist in a condition where Dovo were using flat hones.