Thread: A different slant on honing

I have looked at this casually several times. And my.brain tells me there is no benefit nor a need for a "better mouse trap".

Looks like Jarrod has become upset with all us "Haters"

Honestly I haven't watched his new vid I have no need to,,, I understand Geometry

I have shaved with a couple of Jarrod's edges, I believe from before he started using the convex stones. His edges weren't bad at all. I won't say as good as mine, but probably about as good as mine were 8 or 10 years ago. Now he is using convex stones? I can't imagine that he would stick with a new method that gives a lesser edge than what he was making all along. So I will assume that his results are as good or better than a typical edge off a flat hone.

However, for myself, I have spent too much time flattening my stones, to unflatten them on purpose. Not a hater, but I'm not gonna switch, either.

The first and only Jnat I ever bought was convexed both longways and crossways. I didn't realize it at the time that this might have been done on purpose, so I spent a lot of time lapping it flat, and I never tried it the way I got it. No biggie, since I decided I wasn't getting satisfactory edges with the Jnat, anyway. If I had known better, I might have tried a few edges with it convexed. It just seemed "wrong" to me so I made it dead flat.

Looks like Jarrod has become upset with all us "Haters"


Who is Jarrod?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Looks like Jarrod has become upset with all us "Haters"


Who is Jarrod?

Hehehe I hear ya Marty I didn't realize who he was until he started including my name in his vids

He owns Superior Shave he is an unapologetic Dovo fan but then again he also sells them

He has now included your S/N and Steve56 in his vid title also because of this thread, it also helps him get hits on YouTube

It has always been a thing to create strife to try and sell an idea along these groups, by attacking the known it draws attention to your idea

This has gone on for many years on all the forums I could name all the ideas that have come and gone over the years by attacking the traditional, but why they are all pretty much gone

Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors

I have shaved with a couple of Jarrod's edges, I believe from before he started using the convex stones. His edges weren't bad at all. I won't say as good as mine, but probably about as good as mine were 8 or 10 years ago. Now he is using convex stones? I can't imagine that he would stick with a new method that gives a lesser edge than what he was making all along. So I will assume that his results are as good or better than a typical edge off a flat hone.

However, for myself, I have spent too much time flattening my stones, to unflatten them on purpose. Not a hater, but I'm not gonna switch, either.

The first and only Jnat I ever bought was convexed both longways and crossways. I didn't realize it at the time that this might have been done on purpose, so I spent a lot of time lapping it flat, and I never tried it the way I got it. No biggie, since I decided I wasn't getting satisfactory edges with the Jnat, anyway. If I had known better, I might have tried a few edges with it convexed. It just seemed "wrong" to me so I made it dead flat.

You are greatly simplifying his outrageous claims and that is the problem,,, so is he now...

See if he just said "Hey I am getting great edges and it is easier for me to get them this way give it a try" my reaction would be "Good, more power to ya"

But that is NEVER what people do, they first must give a BS reason that this works WAY better than the traditional systems, near every time it is based on sketchy science or geometry... When you tell them "No that isn't actually true", then you are all of a sudden a hater and that creates "Sides" and the strife that helps promote their bad science and most often a product..
Soon they begin to subtly change their "New" system back towards the traditional and we don't much hear about the "WonderSystem" any longer

He has already backed off on the "Science" that he claimed, mostly because of Steve and I calling it BS now it is more about it being easier to hone around Warped edges.. This appeals more to the new guys that have problems honing around razors that have issues.. That is smart because they are they ones more likely to buy into it and subsequently promote it.
Many of them don't even realize that it isn't the "New" system that is improving their honing it is the fact they are honing more and paying more attention to doing it right (That might be good)

I try to keep an open mind and maybe even try one of his stones one day but when the back and forth takes a bizarre turn and devolves into personal attacks, I will pass.
https://thesuperiorshave.com/product...T9y-_tNW9FV1hU

Originally Posted by alex1921

I try to keep an open mind and maybe even try one of his stones one day but when the back and forth takes a bizarre turn and devolves into personal attacks, I will pass.
https://thesuperiorshave.com/product...T9y-_tNW9FV1hU

That is part of his Promotional Plan sadly, he realizes that the more we talk about it the more clicks he gets and it helps his business model..

I bet it would take you all of 5 minutes to round the top of a finisher and try it, I also bet it takes you less time to realize that if the sketchy science even worked that the formation of a Concave Bevel vs a Convex Bevel is not a good thing.. Myself I doubt that is even happening, so there is that

We must also realize that we actually strive toward a flat "Bevel edge" but different conditions tend us toward a Convex bevel ie Slurry, Stropping I mean we actually at one time had a few notable makers promoting the formation of a convex bevel by the use of micro-beveling
This is also used by a few of the DE makers to create their edges

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You are greatly simplifying his outrageous claims and that is the problem so is he now...

See if he just said "Hey I am getting great edges and it is easier for me to get them this way give it a try" my reaction would be "Good, more power to ya"

But that is NEVER what people do, they first must give a BS reason that this works WAY better than the traditional systems, near every time it is based on sketchy science or geometry... When you tell them "No that isn't actually true", then you are all of a sudden a hater and that creates "Sides" and the strife that helps promote their bad science and most often a product..
Soon they begin to subtly change their "New" system back towards the traditional and we don't much hear about the "WonderSystem" any longer

He has already backed off on the "Science" that he claimed, mostly because of Steve and I calling it BS now it is more about it being easier to hone around Warped edges.. This appeals more to the new guys that have problems honing around razors that have issues.. That is smart because they are they ones more likely to buy into it and subsequently promote it.
Many of them don't even realize that it isn't the "New" system that is improving their honing it is the fact they are honing more and paying more attention to doing it right (That might be good)

Ah. Okay. I never saw any crazy claims, or else I just never paid any attention to them.

Obviously a convex hone would make honing a warped or frowned blade easier. The only problem is, when you hone into a defect like that, often you are just making it worse. I would rather fix it or toss it, anyway.

You are absolutely right about the paying attention part. A lot of newbies hear "it's just rubbing steel to rock until sharp, not rocket science" but they take it kind of literally and don't really think about what is really happening at the edge. You can hone too fast, but you really can't hone too slow, at least if you are honing for yourself. The brain is almost as important, actually more important, than the stone. We tell guys "just HONE it", and I have done it too, so they are like, "okay...." and they just rub rub rub and get meh results. Then we confuse them with edge pics and theories and details and spreadsheets and diagrams and recommendations and what do you know, they get better, because they think about what they are doing instead of just applying blade to magic sharpening rock and expecting it to just work because they paid half a day's wages for it.

So by extension, we could all agree to tell beginners that honing on a nicely lapped brick with Smuckers grape jelly would give them a fantastic bevel, and IT PROBABLY WOULD! LOL. At least better than they were getting with the "mindlessly rub on rock until done" approach. Someone could sell kits of pre-lapped bricks and convenient restaurant single serving packs of the special honing compound and proclaim it to be the world's best honing system, complete with complimentary DVD and instruction booklet. Someone not in on the joke would shout it down mercilessly with salvos of ridicule and scorn. Noobs feeling defeated by their King combo or Sharp Pebbles would wonder if maybe this new thing with the brick and the jelly isn't the holy grail, feared by the old guard for being so much better and easier, and try again, this time taking their time as they learn the new system... et voila. An edge that shows a bit more promise. Is that kind of in line with what you are saying?

Anyway, it is a definite fact that fully engaging the mind in honing gives superior results.

Now I got to lap some stones and set the bevel on another batch of razors. It's a pretty safe bet that I will be lapping them FLAT, like always.

I still like dealing with TSS, though. I got two Dovo Bismarcks from him at a pretty good price a few years ago. I just don't think I will be getting in on the un-flat stone thing.

<EDIT> Apologies. I just have to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm-upHSP9KU

Videos and people on the internetz confuse me.